Flawed theology, creates flawed philosophy and flawed psychology that create flawed personalities (characters), that create flawed institutions that serve flawed individuals that create flawed theologies...times n ...cycles.
The fundamental MONO-theists (Christianity, Islam, and Judaism) are on the move again making the global (ONE) citizens study war through the Media and then the School system, thus creating a "nationalist" and almost "religious" (monotheist) zeal or fervour. Is it a "conspiracy"? Is religion a "conspiracy" generally? Is there a "hidden agenda" in religion? Is there a hidden agenda in "Religions as States (clans)"?
In Canada, the point of focus has recently been placed on Vimy Ridge as a "defining" moment in Canadian history, according to some military historians/propagandists. Most Canadians I know do not define themselves by a "war" but by the quality of their lives, family, friends, thoughts, emotions, first and formost. Security and religion comes "way down the line" and is something to do in an "emergency". For those who learn to "get along", what defines them is "how well they get along with everyone". Most people I know get ready for "disasters" but the disasters, although they make a good story and song, and worthy of "remembering" does not "define" them and most do not "dwell" on the negative but get on with creating a "positive" and "peaceful" future for the next generation. Peace and peace-keeping, not war, defines the Canadians I know. War is what defines the failure of statemen, politicians, the religious adherents, who should have "stopped" the war through "talking" or through prayer or education around the causes of war, such as "religions", specially state/religious clans.
They (the storytellers, academics, writers, etc...) who make a living from their "words" use the media of the day: books, film, TV, political parties rags, non-profit organizations, and religions to create a sense of "urgency" of an "impending" disaster such as "war". But the urgency around impending disasters are also presented in religious terms such as: plagues and "End of TIMES" scenarios and not limited to a "them versus us" division. The divisions in the "natural disaster" scenarios are mostly centered around the right/left wing "economic" argument and the credibility of the disaster "prophesy" is challenged using other "causal" theories.
It seems that the theological focus on the "MONO" as ONE rather than on the "theism" (God-ism) which quickly becomes a "who", a "person" God, could re-focus the theological divisions and the duality of a personal "theism" on the UNITING and impersonal principle of ONE. These attributes assigned to the ONE (God) by Man soon becomes "anger" and war. So the word "monotheism", a concept of ONE, becomes a concept of ONE with a concept of two (duality) when the "theism" is tagged on. A "One" God (centered in Heaven), as a localized entity (or person) opens a concept of "outside" of that "entity" or person (duality). Then the concept of a place where that ONE is not (hell, darkness, outside the group, etc..), establishes the duality in concrete terms in the mind of the "followers". They are then "controlled" through fear and can be made to do unspeakable horrors in the name of a concept of MONO-theism. Monotheists want at all costs to avoid the place where the "MONO" is NOT, or HELL!!
The inability for the dynamic mind (constantly in motion, as a shark) to hold "static" a concept of ONE in a MOVING REALITY, sends the mind either into the dualistic "theism" of a personal God or in the virtual, imaginary realm represented by the negative numbers. These numbers are called "integers" as opposed to "real numbers" which are "subsets" of integers and are: 1,2,3,4,5, etc. Integers are -2,-1, 0, and +1, +2 +3....
The ONE, (or REALITY) being in MOTION creates through MOTION, the DUALITY that monotheists then use as a power to "divide" in reductionist fashion. On the other side of the MOTION, the ONE MOTION creates the Imaginary, virtual, "not-real", realm of the "negative" numbers which are in reality and by definition, an "illusion". Time is depicted as a "negative" in the Pythagorean theorem for squares on Right angle triangles.
So the ONE is not a PERSON or a PERSONAL GOD or anything but a "principle" of MOTION between the REALITY of + (plus) and the Virtual, imaginary, (un-Reality), of - (minus).
Then the ONE is MALE/FEMALE/NEUTER and also, none of these attributes "alone" as the use of the word: MONOTHEISM seems to allow of the "theism" part of its meaning. The Monotheist religions claim to know that GOD is GOD THE FATHER. Nature is then the FEMALE as a "counterbalance" to God and hence outside of GOD.
We can then say that the ONE is ALL so as to encompass all the (positive) REALITY and the (negative) VIRTUAL, Imaginary, Un-real, etc... but the ONE is NOT -- any one part "alone" and not the "other".
Do Canadians know that we now have a mythic "MOTHER CANADA, rather than a "FATHER CANADA"....OH YEAH? First God is a Male and now our Country is a Female. Did you vote on that? Does it not sound like all other "fundamentalist" and "nationalist" of attaching attributes to what does not belong to them! Is Germany the FATHERLAND? India is the MOTHERLAND! Nations and the ONE have no GENDER!
Should we not vote on our GENDER as a country? Or is this left to "religious", fundamentalist, nationalist citizens of some country or monotheist religion? Flawed theology, creates flawed philosophy and flawed psychology that create flawed personalities, that create flawed institutions that serve flawed individuals that create flawed theologies...times n ...cycles.
Saturday, April 7, 2007
Wednesday, April 4, 2007
Facts, Truths and Religions (Spirituality)
From: http://atheisme.free.fr/Votre_espace/Visitors_book.htm
Alpha/Omega said:
Truth is fact! To have the truth one must be in its presence personally! Which of you were present in the beginning? NONE? So how do you know what is tuth!? What is FACT!?
(alpha/omega / 03/04/07 - 01:13)
4d-don said:
To claim that anything is "fact" and as such is static and "unchanging" in a dynamic Universe of MOTION and Change is simply FALSE. There are no (eternal) static facts and no (eternal) static Truth's, just a series of "changes" from one "outreach" of an "oscillation" to the other "inreach" of the same "oscillation". Everything is constantly in MOTION and nothing is at rest, not even the ONE, what some call "GOD". To be still is to DIE and the UNIVERSE, although a duality with "polarity" (positive/negative, Up/down, in/out, hot/cold, good/bad, true/false etc. is ALIVE.
The illusion that one side of the polarity, although more subjectively desireable to "US" as a self-centered being (ego), is more important than the other, is "RELIGION" and not the truth of LOGIC or SPRIT-UALITY (what I call a more rarified form of energy or logic) that allows for the MOTION of LIFE...and is not "stuck" in FACTS and TRUTH's...
"Spirits" (real or mythic), being energy, would not be "adherents" to "paths" or "adhesives" to be caught in the traps of materialistic logic. But some thinkers do try to conceive of the ancient Greek concept of LOGOS ("logic as described by SOUND, using words"...not Words as Facts or Truths) as a dynamic and logical ONE (GOD?) as the STARTING MOTION (not point...there is no point, only energy in motion) of our dualistic "MIND" and/or dualistic CREATION (or, the ALL), with all of it's conceptions (ideas). But one should not be "lead" solely by one's physical receptors and perceptors, many of which are tools of survival of the physical "carbon-based" part of our self, and as such, are physical. One must also use "principles" and other "higher" goupings of "a priori" logic and its "sensory mechanisms", such as "intuition" (intuitive perception) and what is now called ESP (Extra sensory perception).
Here is one "FACT" (NOT!), that seems to be static: Because of the rotation of the many components of the UNIVERSE, (and maybe the UNIVERSE itself), such as Groups of Galaxies, Galaxies, Star systems, and Atoms, TIME as a measurement of Change or MOTION, seems to go only in one direction, from past to future. "In this UNIVERSE" is the "important" point. lol
Then what about the MULTI-VERSE? What is the static FACT and TRUTH there?
Facts and Truths are the toys (illusions) that Religions sell....
(4d-don / 03/04/07 - 22:03)
Alpha/Omega said:
Truth is fact! To have the truth one must be in its presence personally! Which of you were present in the beginning? NONE? So how do you know what is tuth!? What is FACT!?
(alpha/omega / 03/04/07 - 01:13)
4d-don said:
To claim that anything is "fact" and as such is static and "unchanging" in a dynamic Universe of MOTION and Change is simply FALSE. There are no (eternal) static facts and no (eternal) static Truth's, just a series of "changes" from one "outreach" of an "oscillation" to the other "inreach" of the same "oscillation". Everything is constantly in MOTION and nothing is at rest, not even the ONE, what some call "GOD". To be still is to DIE and the UNIVERSE, although a duality with "polarity" (positive/negative, Up/down, in/out, hot/cold, good/bad, true/false etc. is ALIVE.
The illusion that one side of the polarity, although more subjectively desireable to "US" as a self-centered being (ego), is more important than the other, is "RELIGION" and not the truth of LOGIC or SPRIT-UALITY (what I call a more rarified form of energy or logic) that allows for the MOTION of LIFE...and is not "stuck" in FACTS and TRUTH's...
"Spirits" (real or mythic), being energy, would not be "adherents" to "paths" or "adhesives" to be caught in the traps of materialistic logic. But some thinkers do try to conceive of the ancient Greek concept of LOGOS ("logic as described by SOUND, using words"...not Words as Facts or Truths) as a dynamic and logical ONE (GOD?) as the STARTING MOTION (not point...there is no point, only energy in motion) of our dualistic "MIND" and/or dualistic CREATION (or, the ALL), with all of it's conceptions (ideas). But one should not be "lead" solely by one's physical receptors and perceptors, many of which are tools of survival of the physical "carbon-based" part of our self, and as such, are physical. One must also use "principles" and other "higher" goupings of "a priori" logic and its "sensory mechanisms", such as "intuition" (intuitive perception) and what is now called ESP (Extra sensory perception).
Here is one "FACT" (NOT!), that seems to be static: Because of the rotation of the many components of the UNIVERSE, (and maybe the UNIVERSE itself), such as Groups of Galaxies, Galaxies, Star systems, and Atoms, TIME as a measurement of Change or MOTION, seems to go only in one direction, from past to future. "In this UNIVERSE" is the "important" point. lol
Then what about the MULTI-VERSE? What is the static FACT and TRUTH there?
Facts and Truths are the toys (illusions) that Religions sell....
(4d-don / 03/04/07 - 22:03)
Tuesday, April 3, 2007
Everyone and Everything is One's Spiritual Guide
My reply to: "everyone and everything is his spiritual guide".... from Shantideva as posted by Chris on:
http://p092.ezboard.com/fmovingintostillnessfrm11.showMessageRange?
topicID=69.topic&start=581&stop=586
Re: Guru Yoga/Shantideva
You know the teaching I dig is Shantideva's who said that everyone and everything is his spiritual guide...that one makes a lot of sense to me...it refutes nothing, it argues against or for nothing...it uses what ever appears to our mind as our spiritual guide. And it really works!
Edited by: Chris Crumb at: 3/30/07 7:33 pm
Re: Guru Yoga/Shantideva
Hi Chris and all...
Now that makes sense.
If the ONE (God) is "omnipresent" then the path to get to IT is not "somewhere else" only, but some part of IT (ONE) should be "right beside us". We are not searchers in "space" but searchers for methods to use in the "interior scapes" of the realm of MIND, (with its id, imagination, virtuality, abstractions etc...). So, we want to "open one's eyes" and "SEE" the REALITY. That is what drew me to the eightfold (octave) "raja yoga" and thus in a round about way to the "phoney" or "modified" Raja Yoga that is "Sahaj Marg". Modified for whom? The fast-food, quick-fix, MacDonald Generation? The path of Raja Yoga was and still is "accurate" and the "king of Yogas", in my humble opinion, but with the "modifications" (tapas, yamas) of Sahaj Marg put back in.
From the Bible...(loosely)
If they say "HE"s on the MOUNTAIN, or in the VALLEY, don't go! The ONE will be seen from EVERYWHERE as IT is "Everywhere"...(I think...not sure of that...lol...To be ONE or ALL, IT has to be Everywhere, everywhen,....)
So, according to Jesus (myth or real), the ONE is Everywhere" and thus "in everything" (as the ALL) and one (we) just has to "open one's eyes"...
A prohet is a "seer"
The thing with the ONE, is that if it is dynamic and in motion, we can only see a "moving" or "transitory" image of IT with our "physical" eyes, so the minute we look or think or focus on something of "self interest" we lose the view of the ALL or the ONE. We call it "focussing". Some call what we perceive and experience as a "moment" of motion or "in time", but IT is ALL in ONE and "out of TIME" and in constant MOTION.
Therein lies the rub...and the occasion for the profiteers with the ability (silver-tongued devils) to "sell" IT, much as some sell sex as love, art as nature, music as sound, color as light, etc...we are in a world of metaphors (of our own creation (mind) and trying to use words with absolute meaning to describe beliefs, myths, symbols, mores (of the past), using a static language or a language of "objects", English. (as probably most commercial languages). The more romantic languages include some "humanity" but few if any, offer an extensive use of "metaphors".
A Biblical example.
In John 1, the Bible states:
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was God, and the Word was with God." etc....
Translation from the Greek:
In the Beginning was the "LOGOS" (in philosophy logos is Logic, as described by sound, using words). So words must "make sense" and not just be "grunts".
Translated in Latin and then French as:
Au commencement etait le "VERBE" (the verb??...The "action", ENERGY or MOTION...How romantic!! lol
Translated into the "static" english:
In the beginning was the "WORD"...static as if the "Word" is now to be spread as the static TRUTH from GOD eternally...Hence the Christian "evangelical" or fundamentalist movement.
From a concept of LOGIC, to MOTION, and ENERGY to a DOGMATIC eternal truth of the "WORD".... a specific sound or a specific WORD....and not SOUND in general...
It's no wonder we are all "confused" and clay in the hands of the "experts" of academia and/or the "autocrats" from the business-men of religion.....
Rather than speaking about a "table" as a static "object", if seen accross or "out of" TIME, the wood (or carbon) is actually "tabling" after having "treed" for a while and will be "moulding" and then eventually "carbon-ing" again etc...LIFE IS A PROCESS or "cyclical"....not a static reality...
We might, so as to reach a "higher" understanding of REALITY, have to start speaking in "metaphors" as Gene Roddenberry did on one of the Star Trek episodes...lol At least we might not sound so "dogmatic" and "know-it-alls" ...lol
Star Trek...
"Picard, his eyes open wide!!"....;-))
4d-don...
Edited by: 4d don at: 3/30/07 2:47 pm
http://p092.ezboard.com/fmovingintostillnessfrm11.showMessageRange?
topicID=69.topic&start=581&stop=586
Re: Guru Yoga/Shantideva
You know the teaching I dig is Shantideva's who said that everyone and everything is his spiritual guide...that one makes a lot of sense to me...it refutes nothing, it argues against or for nothing...it uses what ever appears to our mind as our spiritual guide. And it really works!
Edited by: Chris Crumb at: 3/30/07 7:33 pmRe: Guru Yoga/Shantideva
Hi Chris and all...
Now that makes sense.
If the ONE (God) is "omnipresent" then the path to get to IT is not "somewhere else" only, but some part of IT (ONE) should be "right beside us". We are not searchers in "space" but searchers for methods to use in the "interior scapes" of the realm of MIND, (with its id, imagination, virtuality, abstractions etc...). So, we want to "open one's eyes" and "SEE" the REALITY. That is what drew me to the eightfold (octave) "raja yoga" and thus in a round about way to the "phoney" or "modified" Raja Yoga that is "Sahaj Marg". Modified for whom? The fast-food, quick-fix, MacDonald Generation? The path of Raja Yoga was and still is "accurate" and the "king of Yogas", in my humble opinion, but with the "modifications" (tapas, yamas) of Sahaj Marg put back in.
From the Bible...(loosely)
If they say "HE"s on the MOUNTAIN, or in the VALLEY, don't go! The ONE will be seen from EVERYWHERE as IT is "Everywhere"...(I think...not sure of that...lol...To be ONE or ALL, IT has to be Everywhere, everywhen,....)
So, according to Jesus (myth or real), the ONE is Everywhere" and thus "in everything" (as the ALL) and one (we) just has to "open one's eyes"...
A prohet is a "seer"
The thing with the ONE, is that if it is dynamic and in motion, we can only see a "moving" or "transitory" image of IT with our "physical" eyes, so the minute we look or think or focus on something of "self interest" we lose the view of the ALL or the ONE. We call it "focussing". Some call what we perceive and experience as a "moment" of motion or "in time", but IT is ALL in ONE and "out of TIME" and in constant MOTION.
Therein lies the rub...and the occasion for the profiteers with the ability (silver-tongued devils) to "sell" IT, much as some sell sex as love, art as nature, music as sound, color as light, etc...we are in a world of metaphors (of our own creation (mind) and trying to use words with absolute meaning to describe beliefs, myths, symbols, mores (of the past), using a static language or a language of "objects", English. (as probably most commercial languages). The more romantic languages include some "humanity" but few if any, offer an extensive use of "metaphors".
A Biblical example.
In John 1, the Bible states:
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was God, and the Word was with God." etc....
Translation from the Greek:
In the Beginning was the "LOGOS" (in philosophy logos is Logic, as described by sound, using words). So words must "make sense" and not just be "grunts".
Translated in Latin and then French as:
Au commencement etait le "VERBE" (the verb??...The "action", ENERGY or MOTION...How romantic!! lol
Translated into the "static" english:
In the beginning was the "WORD"...static as if the "Word" is now to be spread as the static TRUTH from GOD eternally...Hence the Christian "evangelical" or fundamentalist movement.
From a concept of LOGIC, to MOTION, and ENERGY to a DOGMATIC eternal truth of the "WORD".... a specific sound or a specific WORD....and not SOUND in general...
It's no wonder we are all "confused" and clay in the hands of the "experts" of academia and/or the "autocrats" from the business-men of religion.....
Rather than speaking about a "table" as a static "object", if seen accross or "out of" TIME, the wood (or carbon) is actually "tabling" after having "treed" for a while and will be "moulding" and then eventually "carbon-ing" again etc...LIFE IS A PROCESS or "cyclical"....not a static reality...
We might, so as to reach a "higher" understanding of REALITY, have to start speaking in "metaphors" as Gene Roddenberry did on one of the Star Trek episodes...lol At least we might not sound so "dogmatic" and "know-it-alls" ...lol
Star Trek...
"Picard, his eyes open wide!!"....;-))
4d-don...
Edited by: 4d don at: 3/30/07 2:47 pm
Faith Breeds Violence on "THE PATH" -4d-Don
Reply to and agreement with the previous quote by J. Krishnamurti
on:
http://p092.ezboard.com/fmovingintostillnessfrm11.
showMessageRange?topicID=69.topic&start=581&stop=586
Hi all...
I have been questionning the cause of the confusion induced in the "seekers" by the words "path", map, secret, system, method, etc... as if there was a goal to be reached rather than a realization that the "journey is the thing" of spirituality... where one would be free to go into a group, (the sphere of the MASTER or MISSION or METHOD) take the "knowledge" (the map of the path) and get out.
With a spiritual "path", goal etc, that never ends or culminates, one never actually never gets there but a "dependence" is built just through repetition and "habit", that can then be "manipulated" by the "owners" of the path, goal, etc...(try it for 6 months and see...is the standard come-on!)
In logic, (and religion and spirituality), words such as: the path, "quest" or "search", imply a "movement" in space, to a place where one realizes one' s destiny and/or more of the ONE or Energy of LIFE. The presumption is that the "seeker" is presently in a more "dense" or "a less enlightened" space than the "other" part of so-called REAL and desireable SPACE (heaven, bliss, nirvana, etc.)".
It's the old: "the grass is greener over there" and you need a "path", secret, or map, to get there...and I just happen to have a "map" showing how to get there. Or, even better, I was there myself, or my buddy or guru, was there himself and he told me how to guide you on the path or to the goal...but I won't go with you....I'll just tell you what to do ...and you just obey! That is not a guide but an academic with theoretical information that could be "knowledge" or not... We will only know at the end of the journey. And there is no end to the journey. So?...we will never know...
And How do I know that I'll get there with this map?...Because no matter where one adherent gets to, using my path or map, I will say that it is "THERE" and I'll be "RIGHT".... Not ethical, moral, or effective or self-sustaining, but "RIGHT"....
If space is scalar, and all directions are "Possible", that implies that we, as "radiant energy" (heat..98.6, electromagnetic (brain=5-8 hz), and a certain individual visible light spectrum) are all sources of "radiance" emitted in a sphere around oneself, in many or ALL directions , in a sort of oscillating or "rolling" wave of "energy". The concept of the "path" implies a one dimensional linear space from this 3d to that other 3d space while the concept of "BE HERE NOW" of Baba Ram Das et al, seems more "REAL"... and "probable" in reality...The path is a "transition" (or an oscillation and rotational motion) ...LIFE IS NOT A TRANSITION from one space to the other but is a constant oscillating (in the direction of "in and out") TRANSITION, and is in rotation in an "allspace" created by itself... The path is ALL PATHS and does not say anything about a particular map or path from HERE to THERE ..... THERE IS NO SECRET, MAP, OR PATH, it is being created as the MOTION of LIFE ROLLS ON in the ETERNAL NOW!!
There's a song there....lol...
Krishnamurti is again "on"....I just read some Vivekenanda and was pleased to see him calling the "divinity", ONE...and at least thinking of "space and time"... If knowledge is also what is gained and "polished" with "spirituality" then knowledge has to be "shown" with "gem-clear" statements and not necessarily "experiences" except the experience of finding the excitement of confirmation that the "statement is true" and accurate and possible in "reality" and not just in logic, or mathematics or "in theory", such are "models"...
He (Vivekenanada) is another proponent of "use the intellect" (or logic) in the form of advaita philosophy for this age and I think he's right...
Obedience for some kids and adults...Logic for some adults and kids....
Knowledge of our Spiritual nature does not make one more "spiritual" any more than Knowledge about the Sun's nature make the Sun shine more. And certainly not shine more on one than on the "neighbour". The sun shines because of the laws of NATURE on ALL, in all directions. We are spirit because of our NATURE...Knowledge is just another intellectual "gift" and does not affect our spirituality...but allows an intellectual "realization"...
The message is BE!! not DO (or teach) Spirituality...We all know the difference!! Lots of talkers and salesmen out there... I will not buy what is mine for free!!
4d-don
Edited by: 4d don at: 4/2/07 1:27 pm
on:
http://p092.ezboard.com/fmovingintostillnessfrm11.
showMessageRange?topicID=69.topic&start=581&stop=586
Hi all...
I have been questionning the cause of the confusion induced in the "seekers" by the words "path", map, secret, system, method, etc... as if there was a goal to be reached rather than a realization that the "journey is the thing" of spirituality... where one would be free to go into a group, (the sphere of the MASTER or MISSION or METHOD) take the "knowledge" (the map of the path) and get out.
With a spiritual "path", goal etc, that never ends or culminates, one never actually never gets there but a "dependence" is built just through repetition and "habit", that can then be "manipulated" by the "owners" of the path, goal, etc...(try it for 6 months and see...is the standard come-on!)
In logic, (and religion and spirituality), words such as: the path, "quest" or "search", imply a "movement" in space, to a place where one realizes one' s destiny and/or more of the ONE or Energy of LIFE. The presumption is that the "seeker" is presently in a more "dense" or "a less enlightened" space than the "other" part of so-called REAL and desireable SPACE (heaven, bliss, nirvana, etc.)".
It's the old: "the grass is greener over there" and you need a "path", secret, or map, to get there...and I just happen to have a "map" showing how to get there. Or, even better, I was there myself, or my buddy or guru, was there himself and he told me how to guide you on the path or to the goal...but I won't go with you....I'll just tell you what to do ...and you just obey! That is not a guide but an academic with theoretical information that could be "knowledge" or not... We will only know at the end of the journey. And there is no end to the journey. So?...we will never know...
And How do I know that I'll get there with this map?...Because no matter where one adherent gets to, using my path or map, I will say that it is "THERE" and I'll be "RIGHT".... Not ethical, moral, or effective or self-sustaining, but "RIGHT"....
If space is scalar, and all directions are "Possible", that implies that we, as "radiant energy" (heat..98.6, electromagnetic (brain=5-8 hz), and a certain individual visible light spectrum) are all sources of "radiance" emitted in a sphere around oneself, in many or ALL directions , in a sort of oscillating or "rolling" wave of "energy". The concept of the "path" implies a one dimensional linear space from this 3d to that other 3d space while the concept of "BE HERE NOW" of Baba Ram Das et al, seems more "REAL"... and "probable" in reality...The path is a "transition" (or an oscillation and rotational motion) ...LIFE IS NOT A TRANSITION from one space to the other but is a constant oscillating (in the direction of "in and out") TRANSITION, and is in rotation in an "allspace" created by itself... The path is ALL PATHS and does not say anything about a particular map or path from HERE to THERE ..... THERE IS NO SECRET, MAP, OR PATH, it is being created as the MOTION of LIFE ROLLS ON in the ETERNAL NOW!!
There's a song there....lol...
Krishnamurti is again "on"....I just read some Vivekenanda and was pleased to see him calling the "divinity", ONE...and at least thinking of "space and time"... If knowledge is also what is gained and "polished" with "spirituality" then knowledge has to be "shown" with "gem-clear" statements and not necessarily "experiences" except the experience of finding the excitement of confirmation that the "statement is true" and accurate and possible in "reality" and not just in logic, or mathematics or "in theory", such are "models"...
He (Vivekenanada) is another proponent of "use the intellect" (or logic) in the form of advaita philosophy for this age and I think he's right...
Obedience for some kids and adults...Logic for some adults and kids....
Knowledge of our Spiritual nature does not make one more "spiritual" any more than Knowledge about the Sun's nature make the Sun shine more. And certainly not shine more on one than on the "neighbour". The sun shines because of the laws of NATURE on ALL, in all directions. We are spirit because of our NATURE...Knowledge is just another intellectual "gift" and does not affect our spirituality...but allows an intellectual "realization"...
The message is BE!! not DO (or teach) Spirituality...We all know the difference!! Lots of talkers and salesmen out there... I will not buy what is mine for free!!
4d-don
Edited by: 4d don at: 4/2/07 1:27 pm
Faith Breeds Violence-J. Krishnamurti
"Man has throughout the ages been seeking something beyond himself, beyond material welfare - something we call truth or God or reality, a timeless state - something that cannot be disturbed by circumstances, by thought or by human corruption.
Man has always asked the question: what is it all about? Has life any meaning at all? He sees the enormous confusion of life, the brutalities, the revolt, the wars, the endless divisions of religion, ideology and nationality, and with a sense of deep abiding frustration he asks, what is one to do, what is this thing we call living, is there anything beyond it?
And not finding this nameless thing of a thousand names which he has always sought, he has cultivated faith - faith in a saviour or an ideal - and faith invariably breeds violence."
J. Krishnamurti
From discussion on:
http://p092.ezboard.com/fmovingintostillnessfrm11.showMessageRange?topicID=69.topic&start=561&stop=580
(4d-don / 26/03/07 - 06:18)
Man has always asked the question: what is it all about? Has life any meaning at all? He sees the enormous confusion of life, the brutalities, the revolt, the wars, the endless divisions of religion, ideology and nationality, and with a sense of deep abiding frustration he asks, what is one to do, what is this thing we call living, is there anything beyond it?
And not finding this nameless thing of a thousand names which he has always sought, he has cultivated faith - faith in a saviour or an ideal - and faith invariably breeds violence."
J. Krishnamurti
From discussion on:
http://p092.ezboard.com/fmovingintostillnessfrm11.showMessageRange?topicID=69.topic&start=561&stop=580
(4d-don / 26/03/07 - 06:18)
Subscribe to:
Posts (Atom)