Infinity and Eternity to a Theist, a Deist and an Atheist...
Since we are already above our heads, the "conditional" "tense" is the one to use so as to avoid any dogmatism.
The mathematical "Infinity" can have a beginning but no end. The religious and philosophical "Eternity" has no beginning and no end, and is commonly thought of as "existence outside of Time". Although MOTION (measured by the tape measure called TIME) and MATTER (measured in METERS) (aka: the physical or crystal Universe), have a beginning according to religious scriptures, but no end as yet, MATTER and the "measuring tape" of MOTION that is "TIME", could be infinite. MOTION and SPACE on the other hand, could be Eternal and not need a "first cause" and be a product of geometry. A ball near the top of a hill does not need a "pusher" to get it started. The Eternal ONE, the UNITY (a principle, not a person), could be eternal perfection or perfect geometry "in MOTION" and could create the physical Universe from and of MOTION. The hill mentioned above could be described as a tendency or potentiality towards ONE or UNITY using "attractive gravity", complemented by a state I call "the Many" or "diversity "(as we see REALITY today), or the ALL (to bring in a concept of UNITY or ONE) using a "repulsive gravity", thus making gravity a real "FORCE" with an attractive and a repulsive state.
The quantum soup at the small end of the quantum theory could also be present and at work at the cosmic "multiverse" level, and our space (Universe) would constantly be merging with other smaller or larger Universes, as in a boiling pot of water where one bubble (universe) swallows another smaller bubble and becomes larger without the process destroying the smaller bubble but giving it more SPACE or a larger and longer "existence". (see the Kybalion published by the Yogi Publication Society at the Masonic Temple, Chicago, Ill. USA (1912) : "as below, the same above")
A theist, being generally "monotheistic" these days, believes in ONE (what some call GOD), Who (a person not the "I AM THAT I AM" of Moses in the Judeo-Christian Bible) is sometimes divided in two (Duality), or three-(Trinity) aspects, and HE is involved in the daily workings of His (male) Universe. HE (male) answers prayers and favours some of his "children" with blessings (luck and victories) and others with trials (sufferings, bad luck, and defeats). HE (male) has emotions, gets angry, is pleased and please-able by his creation, etc... The theist believes in that God as being ETERNAL, and having "no beginning and no end" unlike "HIS" (male) Universe which has a "beginning" and is hence a "CREATION" of that monotheist Deity (Deus) called GOD by the Germanic tribes of old, and their modern descendants.
But in many monotheistic (Christian) prayers that end with: "world without end, Amen!", that "world" that was created at a point in Space and TIME (or at ALL SPACETIMES at once), by ONE (the involved GOD) so must have a beginning, we are now told, has "no end". That Space/Time, and the energy/matter in the Universe have no end is generally accepted by theists, deists and atheists alike, and we can safely say that all can be said to be "infinite". But "eternal"? Not necessarily.
The "theistic" belief system is supported, theists claim, by the "theory" of the BIG BANG in cosmology, the Big Bang being a representation of the scriptural "Creation". From NO-THING, magically appears SOME-THING created by the commands of this "GODMAN" person or Spirit called Yahweh/Elohim, and later Deus (Roman - latin), and God (Goth-Germanic-English). This (the Big Bang) is called a "scientific" theory and it can explain some aspects of the data collected about the cosmic physical Universe but not the "Beginning" of this Universe.
But the theist's Universe that has "no end" and is therefore "endless", but was created by "GOD" and hence has a "beginning", can not truly be called an "ETERNAL" world but it can be more accurately called an "infinite" world. An Eternal world or UNIVERSE would have "no beginning (so no creation) AND no end". The theist's ONE (GOD) can be "eternal" but HIS (MALE) Creations: the universe, heaven, hell, purgatory, limbo, etc. having a scriptural beginning (creation) but no end, are more accurately called "infinite", not "eternal".
For the theists to quote apocalyptic scriptures and to use the fear mechanism of "the end of the world" with its "rapture" for the "favoured", and the damnation of "hell for eternity" for the rejected, does not compute rationally, not to question the "justice" of such an "eternal reward" and/or an "eternal punishment". To claim to know the time of such cosmic destruction of "EVERYTHING" from Scriptures and/revelation is fantasy that borders on megalomania and "psychosis". The Universe, as we have seen, can not be called ETERNAL according to religious scriptures but now, HEAVEN and HELL are supposed to be (eternal) according to some other Holy Scriptures (Judeo-Christian). But heaven and hell must have a beginning and must have been, at some past time, the creations of that same ONE (the involved GOD) and hence must, at most, be "infinite", and not "ETERNAL". Anything that has a beginning but has no end is not called ETERNAL but "infinite". One can say that heaven and hell go on for "infinity". To be eternal, they would have to have existed before the creations of the ONE (what some call GOD), before the "sins" were committed by IT's CREATURES. What came first, the theist's ONE (God) with HIS favoured: virtue/sin, or HIS punishement: heaven/hell?
To a Deist, ONE is not involved in the working of ITS (Neuter) Universe and is more a principle, a process or a LAW. Being a process, IT can TRANS-FORM ITSELF from Spirit form, to mental form, to energy form, and even to plasma, gas, liquid, and crystaline form (the material world) and can BE the UNIVERSE, and not just be the CREATOR of the UNIVERSE. The Deist ONE CAN BE the UNIVERSAL process that forms the UNI-VERSE through MOTION (trans-formation of ITSELF). ("uni=one "verse"-as in a song or a poem) . To a Deist, the cosmological Multiverse theory and/or the absence of a "Singularity" or a "BIG BANG" does not pose a "theological" problem.
Both Infinity and Eternity are commonly thought of as "endless" by all.
The DEIST (from latin:Deus-God uninvolved, as in a PRINCIPLE) at this stage of the discussion, is more adaptable than the THEIST (greek: Theos-God as a PERSON, directly involved), and is almost as rational as an ATHEIST.
Is there such a thing as an "a-Deist" out there opposing Deism? I don't think so! There is no "need"!
It is the "THEIST", or THEISM that needs a RE-FORMATION and a REALITY check! It's TIME to take off the "rose-colored" glasses and check out the "MAGIC" and "FANTASY" in all belief systems before they bring about and make a reality of their divisiveness to the point of demonizing and attacking and even destruction (war) of their detracters, or their self-fulfilling prophesy of the "end of the World"...which is another fantasy that they could make happen since the advent of the nuclear age!
The "BORN AGAIN" (read: FUNDAMENTALIST or LITERALIST) need to be "FORMED AGAIN"!
If there is such a thing as a rarified state of matter/energy beyond "mental" or "intellectual" energy, called "SPIRIT", then "we" are IT also, and hence, "we" have the Spirituality, and obviously the refined "intellect", as the Theist relies on "FAITH", and has rejected or suspended intellect. If there is a "trans-formation" or a "re-formation" to be had we the "non-believers", the "outsiders", or the "damned" as the RELIGIOUS call us, or as I call us, the "true believers in REALITY", can help make it happen...We can do it!
Just expose and question! Don't accept Fantasy, Magic or Mystery as THE Answer! TRUE REALITY IS MAGICAL ENOUGH! WE ARE THE INFONAUTS! LOGIC is our TOOL. ONE or UNITY IS SIMPLE! SO IS ETERNAL SPACEMOTION!
As Jean-Luc Picard of the Star Ship Enterprise (a fantasy) said: MAKE IT SO!
or AMEN! ;-))
My imaging of the concept of the 2 sides of the 2 dimensional LOGOS (logic) PYRAMID: (in latin)
In excelsis, ex Uno Pluria
(In the highest, from ONE, many)
In excelsis, e pluribus Unuum
(In the highest, from many, ONE)
The theist would say:
In excelsis Deo!
In other words: DON'T THINK! Just Believe what we say! or be Damned!
I placed the words above in a "Christmas song" called "The Bells Of Christmas Day".
THE BELLS OF CHRISTMAS DAY
By 4d-Don (SOCAN)
Key of E (Capo 2....Play D) in 4/4 Time-Folk
(Notes inside Brackets are walking base runs-a 3-note intro base run starting on an D-E-F# note capoed at 2nd fret. Starting note and chord is D(A)
D(A) D(G) D(F#) D(E) G(D) G(F#) A7(E) A7(A) A-B-C#
I hear the bells of Christmas day
D(D) A7(E) Bm(F#) G(D) A(F#) A(E) D(F#) D(D) D-E-F#
Although there are no stee ples around
D(A)D(G)D(F#) D(E) G(D) G(F#) A7(E) A7(A) A-B-C#
And all of na ture bids me stay
D(D) A7(E) Bm(F#) G(G) A(F#)A(E) D(D) D(D) D(D) D-E-F#
To live in har mo ny and join in the Sound
CHORUS
D D(F#) G A
Ding, Dong, Ding, Dong
D A7(E) Bm/F# G F#m(F#) A(E) D D
In ex cel sis ex u - no pluria
D D (F#) G A
Ding, Dong, Ding, Dong
D A7(E) Bm/F# G A(F#) A(E ) D D
In ex cel sis e pluri bus unum
I pray the stars light Bethleem
I pray the city lights don't burn you down
I pray the world one day unites
To live in harmony and join in the Sound
I pray for Peace in New Salem (Jerusalem)
I pray the Gods of War, don’t burn it down
I pray in Peace we all abide
And live in harmony and join in the Sound
I pray for joy throughout the year
I pray the sounds of joy don’t drown out the tears
I Pray in light we all abound
And sing in harmony and join in the Sound.
For more...see my comments on: http://atheisme.free.fr/Votre_espace/Visitors_book.htm
Thursday, December 6, 2007
Thursday, November 29, 2007
Theism and Deism
This is from a comment on: Atheism, the Capital Man
For those who are not familiar with the terms, a Theist (God in Greek-Theos) believes in a God who is "involved" with His creation. This is usually a Male God, often "plural, originating for the western cultures in the desert, nomadic, and later farming cultures of the Near East and Asia.
A Deist (God in Latin-Deus) believes in an intelligent Deity that is un-involved in the daily workings of "ITS" (Neuter) creation. For some, the Deity (latin-Deus) is a process, or a principle such as LOGIC (Greek-LOGOS as in Biblical John 1).
The latin, "Deus", was later translated to G-O-D or Gott by the Gothic (Germanic) Empire theologians who already had their name for the DIVINITY: Goth, Gott, and then the English G-O-D.
That is the same Gothic (Germanic) Empire that sacked Rome in the 4th century (After the Common Era (ACE)). The Goths were at that time being displaced from their homelands by the Huns of "Attila the Hun" fame. This was right after Constantine, with his Council of Nicea, had Christ placed as part of the "Trinity of The ONE (God)" as the second "person", the son of GOD, and "WHO" (a person) was there with the ONE (a number), LOGOS (logic), Yahweh/Elohim (I Am that I am....no name, no form) at the BEGINNING of TIME. This was done so Constantine could become a Christian and have his sins "forgiven" and thus avoid his "cause and effect" debt for the crimes of killing many of his family. That was a belief of the Pagans.
The folowers of Egyptian Bishop Arius (Arians-synchronistically similar to "aryans" of the later Nazis) rejected and opposed this theology at the Council of Nicea. This was seen as a corruption of the philosophical "ONE" God of Monotheism and the Duality (two) of other cultures (Zoroastrian) and into a TRINITY (three). Later the Goth would also reject this "Constantinean" theology but would later relinquish (flip-flop for political reasons?) and become "adherents" to the Nicene Creed (For Nicean Council of Constantine, Emperor of Rome)
A Deist is closer to an a-theist. A theist is closer to Magic and Fantasy.
In the Catholic Church philosophy and theology, that would be reflected in the views of Thomas Aquinas, follower of Aristotle and the Greek Atomists, versus Augustine, follower of Plato and his world view.
This is the Thomas Aquinas (supported and inspired by such philosopher as Rene Descartes (of "I think therfore I am" fame) , and Roger Bacon), who can be credited for the undermining of Church/State dictatorial control that brought about the "Protestant REFORMATION" of the Roman Catholic PYRAMID and freed the intelligentia, the scientific community, and that ushered in the Age of Reason, and the other physical revolutions, industrial revolution, the baron's revolution and the Magna Carta, French Revolution (petit bourgeois), Workers revolutions (unions) , and finally the electrical revolution, the quantum revolution, the electronics revolutions and the "information AGE"...And the INFONAUTS....
Other Theistic cultures and Theocracies also need their Reformation so as to move away from MAGIC and FANTASY to an "intelligent" and Logical ONE (number) or UNITY.
ONE (Deity) CAN'T BE A PERSON! To accept ONE or UNITY as a PROCESS or a PRINCIPLE, not a PERSON, would place the theists at the corrective decision point in the LOOP their "idols" (leaders) took centuries ago and again some many more centuries ago.
If theists (monotheists) accept FANTASY and MAGIC again, they should not expect a DIFFERENT RESULT as from the LAST TIME will they? That would define "INSANITY" would it not?
Faith (blind faith) inevitable leads to violence and even WAR!
For those who are not familiar with the terms, a Theist (God in Greek-Theos) believes in a God who is "involved" with His creation. This is usually a Male God, often "plural, originating for the western cultures in the desert, nomadic, and later farming cultures of the Near East and Asia.
A Deist (God in Latin-Deus) believes in an intelligent Deity that is un-involved in the daily workings of "ITS" (Neuter) creation. For some, the Deity (latin-Deus) is a process, or a principle such as LOGIC (Greek-LOGOS as in Biblical John 1).
The latin, "Deus", was later translated to G-O-D or Gott by the Gothic (Germanic) Empire theologians who already had their name for the DIVINITY: Goth, Gott, and then the English G-O-D.
That is the same Gothic (Germanic) Empire that sacked Rome in the 4th century (After the Common Era (ACE)). The Goths were at that time being displaced from their homelands by the Huns of "Attila the Hun" fame. This was right after Constantine, with his Council of Nicea, had Christ placed as part of the "Trinity of The ONE (God)" as the second "person", the son of GOD, and "WHO" (a person) was there with the ONE (a number), LOGOS (logic), Yahweh/Elohim (I Am that I am....no name, no form) at the BEGINNING of TIME. This was done so Constantine could become a Christian and have his sins "forgiven" and thus avoid his "cause and effect" debt for the crimes of killing many of his family. That was a belief of the Pagans.
The folowers of Egyptian Bishop Arius (Arians-synchronistically similar to "aryans" of the later Nazis) rejected and opposed this theology at the Council of Nicea. This was seen as a corruption of the philosophical "ONE" God of Monotheism and the Duality (two) of other cultures (Zoroastrian) and into a TRINITY (three). Later the Goth would also reject this "Constantinean" theology but would later relinquish (flip-flop for political reasons?) and become "adherents" to the Nicene Creed (For Nicean Council of Constantine, Emperor of Rome)
A Deist is closer to an a-theist. A theist is closer to Magic and Fantasy.
In the Catholic Church philosophy and theology, that would be reflected in the views of Thomas Aquinas, follower of Aristotle and the Greek Atomists, versus Augustine, follower of Plato and his world view.
This is the Thomas Aquinas (supported and inspired by such philosopher as Rene Descartes (of "I think therfore I am" fame) , and Roger Bacon), who can be credited for the undermining of Church/State dictatorial control that brought about the "Protestant REFORMATION" of the Roman Catholic PYRAMID and freed the intelligentia, the scientific community, and that ushered in the Age of Reason, and the other physical revolutions, industrial revolution, the baron's revolution and the Magna Carta, French Revolution (petit bourgeois), Workers revolutions (unions) , and finally the electrical revolution, the quantum revolution, the electronics revolutions and the "information AGE"...And the INFONAUTS....
Other Theistic cultures and Theocracies also need their Reformation so as to move away from MAGIC and FANTASY to an "intelligent" and Logical ONE (number) or UNITY.
ONE (Deity) CAN'T BE A PERSON! To accept ONE or UNITY as a PROCESS or a PRINCIPLE, not a PERSON, would place the theists at the corrective decision point in the LOOP their "idols" (leaders) took centuries ago and again some many more centuries ago.
If theists (monotheists) accept FANTASY and MAGIC again, they should not expect a DIFFERENT RESULT as from the LAST TIME will they? That would define "INSANITY" would it not?
Faith (blind faith) inevitable leads to violence and even WAR!
Friday, November 16, 2007
Personal THEISM Hides FEAR (of being alone )
From: http://atheisme.free.fr/Votre_espace/Visitors_book.htm
For many who believe in a PERSONAL GOD (and hence a personal SATAN, LUCIFER, DEVIL), the "FEAR of Being Alone" is worse than the "fear of HELL"...IN HELL, one is "HOT" and not alone, as (apparently) MANY are the damned.
4d-don Said:
The first steps to "salvation" from the NEED for a personal GOD or THEISM, is to expose, deal with, and cure "SORROW", this loneliness, or sadness. (not the YEARNING which is POSITIVE). This Sorrow, is self-created as many (if not all) fantasies, but encouraged and guided by most RELIGIONS, through manipulation of our fear of being alone. It begins with the Proselytizer himself/herself being "afraid of being alone" and then CREATING or DISCOVERING a fantasy (anecdote, story, poem, song,) that relates or addresses that dis-ease and then presuming it in others through: generalized SCRIPTURES and other "Authorities" and then offering SALVATION from IT. And it is what the GROUP (Religions) offers.
If one is a "believer" in the first place, one, as part of the GREAT ONE (NUMBER), is "IN REALITY" never alone. It is not possible, and a fantasy, a delusion, or a false fear in itself.
The fear of DEATH, (another LORD who "comes like a thief") is the other facet of this fear of "the black hole" as opposed to the promised "HEAVEN" with the "white clouds", trickling water, green pastures, the fluffy little angels, and temperate heat, pleasant light and sound, "music", (no rhythm, ephemeral, no melody, so nothing to remember or "THINK OF"... just sounds but "NICE and SOFT")
Fantasies are nice but to believe them is ??
What's the difference between a Neurotic, a Psychotic, and a psychiatrist?
The neurotic builds castles in Spain, the Psychotic lives in them and the Psychiatrist collects the rent!!
In the case of RELIGIONS and GODS, THE PRIESTS collects the RENT for the POPES and the physical structure of RELIGION.
(4d-don / November 11, 2007 - 03:34 am)
For many who believe in a PERSONAL GOD (and hence a personal SATAN, LUCIFER, DEVIL), the "FEAR of Being Alone" is worse than the "fear of HELL"...IN HELL, one is "HOT" and not alone, as (apparently) MANY are the damned.
4d-don Said:
The first steps to "salvation" from the NEED for a personal GOD or THEISM, is to expose, deal with, and cure "SORROW", this loneliness, or sadness. (not the YEARNING which is POSITIVE). This Sorrow, is self-created as many (if not all) fantasies, but encouraged and guided by most RELIGIONS, through manipulation of our fear of being alone. It begins with the Proselytizer himself/herself being "afraid of being alone" and then CREATING or DISCOVERING a fantasy (anecdote, story, poem, song,) that relates or addresses that dis-ease and then presuming it in others through: generalized SCRIPTURES and other "Authorities" and then offering SALVATION from IT. And it is what the GROUP (Religions) offers.
If one is a "believer" in the first place, one, as part of the GREAT ONE (NUMBER), is "IN REALITY" never alone. It is not possible, and a fantasy, a delusion, or a false fear in itself.
The fear of DEATH, (another LORD who "comes like a thief") is the other facet of this fear of "the black hole" as opposed to the promised "HEAVEN" with the "white clouds", trickling water, green pastures, the fluffy little angels, and temperate heat, pleasant light and sound, "music", (no rhythm, ephemeral, no melody, so nothing to remember or "THINK OF"... just sounds but "NICE and SOFT")
Fantasies are nice but to believe them is ??
What's the difference between a Neurotic, a Psychotic, and a psychiatrist?
The neurotic builds castles in Spain, the Psychotic lives in them and the Psychiatrist collects the rent!!
In the case of RELIGIONS and GODS, THE PRIESTS collects the RENT for the POPES and the physical structure of RELIGION.
(4d-don / November 11, 2007 - 03:34 am)
Monday, November 5, 2007
Judas, The Comeback
This is from NEWSBLOG in the Guardian of
April 7, 2006 1:45 PM
(See my comment below)
Julian Borger and Stephen Bates
Friday April 7, 2006
The Guardian
After being reviled for almost 2,000 years as the embodiment of treachery, Judas Iscariot's side of the story was finally published yesterday. Thanks to a newly discovered gospel in Judas's name, we now know what his excuse was: Jesus made me do it.
April 7, 2006 1:45 PM
(See my comment below)
With the happy news that Judas, one of history's most vilified traitors, was just following orders and not such a bad guy after all, it seems as good a time as any to cast a backwards glance over some of the great rehabilitations of our time.
Judas: this is what really happenedJulian Borger and Stephen Bates
Friday April 7, 2006
The Guardian
After being reviled for almost 2,000 years as the embodiment of treachery, Judas Iscariot's side of the story was finally published yesterday. Thanks to a newly discovered gospel in Judas's name, we now know what his excuse was: Jesus made me do it.
The Gospel of Judas, a fragile clutch of a leather-bound papyrus thought to have been inscribed in about AD300, was unveiled yesterday in Washington by the National Geographic Society, and it represents a radical makeover for one of the worst reputations in history.
According to this version of events, not only was Judas obeying orders when he handed Jesus to his persecutors, he was Christ's most trusted disciple, singled out to receive mystical knowledge.According to the 26-page gospel, copied in the ancient Coptic language apparently from a Greek original more than a hundred years older, Jesus told Judas: "Step away from the others and I shall tell you the mysteries of the kingdom. It is possible for you to reach it, but you will grieve a great deal."
In the days before the fateful Passover holiday, Jesus also told Judas: "You will exceed all of them. For you will sacrifice the man that clothes me." The line, according to biblical scholars, suggests that Jesus chose Judas to help him achieve his destiny by liberating him from his earthly body.
"It's a striking contrast with the negative portrayal of Judas as the quintessential traitor," said Marvin Meyer, a biblical scholar from Chapman University in California who helped translate the gospel. "The figure of Judas is often portrayed as the evil Jewish person who turned Jesus in to be killed."
It is unlikely, however, that the documents are about to trigger a total rehabilitation for the Iscariot name, with shrines in his name and readings from his gospel at church services, let alone a film treatment by Mel Gibson.
The initial reaction from Christian scholars was wary. Even if the gospel is authentic, they said, it appears to be the work of a particular 2nd-century sect, the gnostics, who had different beliefs from the mainstream church and who were long ago declared heretical.
The leading biblical scholar and translator of the dead sea scrolls, Professor Geza Vermes of Oxford University, said: "The document is of interest for the ideas of the gnostics but it almost certainly adds nothing to our understanding of what happened 150 years before it was written."
But the Gospel of Judas is bound to focus more attention on the gnostics, whose belief that they possessed secret knowledge leading to salvation resonates with new-age mysticism. Another gnostic text, the Gospel of Mary Magdalene, discovered a century ago, has been given a dose of publicity lately by The Da Vinci Code.
The manuscript also serves as a reminder that the four gospels in the New Testament were not the only versions of Jesus's life in the early Christian era, according to Bart Ehrman, a religious studies professor at the University of North Carolina, at its unveiling yesterday. "In the struggle among Christian groups to win converts only one emerged victorious," he said. "It declared itself orthodox and all others heretics."
The Gospel of Judas is known to have existed before AD180, when it was denounced as heretical by Bishop Irenaeus of Lyon. But it was thought to have been lost when the gnostics were vanquished in the struggle of ideas in the early years of Christianity.
The papyrus manuscript, also known as a codex, was found in an Egyptian cave in 1978. It circulated among antiquities traders for a while before it was locked in a safe deposit box in Long Island, New York, by a collector. It was bought in 2000 by a Swiss dealer, who realised its importance and its rapidly deteriorating condition and handed it over to the Maecenas Foundation for Ancient Art in Basel the next year.
"The manuscript was so brittle, it would crumble at the slightest touch," said Rodolphe Kasser, a Coptic expert called in to help reconstruct it.
It has taken five years to reassemble the fragments, translate the manuscript and authenticate it. Radiocarbon dating by the University of Arizona showed it was likely to have been written between AD220 and 340.
Scholars in Britain pointed out that the document appeared to have been written several decades after the last of the gospels in the New Testament - that of John - and at least a century after the death of Judas Iscariot.
The Rt Rev John Pritchard, the Church of England Bishop of Jarrow, said: "I don't think it changes anything about the truth of the Christian faith. There has long been a theory that Judas wanted to flush Jesus out, to declare a rebellion and drive the Romans out and killed himself when he realised he had got it wrong, but we don't know that and neither did whoever wrote this document decades after the event. This is not something to put your faith on."
By the time the Gospel of Judas was written the basic content of the New Testament was in place; the criteria for choosing the writings of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, as opposed to any of up to 30 alternatives, were their authenticity and direct authorial links to men who knew Jesus. Other texts, including presumably this one, were sifted out over succeeding centuries.
According to the Gospel of Judas, Jesus tells him: "You will be cursed by the other generations - and you will come to rule over them."
The first half of that prophecy has certainly come to pass. The second, even after yesterday's revelations, still seems a long way off.
· The Gospel of Judas will be shown on the National Geographic Channel on Sunday at 9pm
4d-don commented:
Saturday, October 27, 2007
Put God and Holy Books on Trial
From: http://atheisme.free.fr/Votre_espace/Visitors_book.htm
4d-don said:
It is HIGH TIME to put GOD and the HOLY BOOKS of all religions ON TRIAL (International Tribunal).
Any criminal activity (hatred, incitement to hatred, murder, incitement to murder, genocide, conspiracy, and many more...) by either the "GOD" or "His/Her/It's" (usually male) REPRESENTATIVES should bring a removal of the "tax-exempt" status of the RELIGION in all UN Countries.
The evidence of criminal activity by many Religions is in black and white in their HOLY BOOKS.
If GOD is found "innocent" then IT's representatives should be forced to remove from the HOLY BOOKS the sections where the crimes are attributed to, or ordered by "GOD" as a condition for the continued operation of the RELIGION (cult) in any UN countries.
RELIGIONS should not be "tax-exempt" for creating a social problem (crime) and not adhering to the civil laws of the land, but if doing charity work, only the CHARITY WORK portion of that religion (cult) should be TAX EXEMPT, not the PROSELYTIZING of what now appears to be a CRIMINAL GOD, served by criminal representatives and gullible and naive but innocent followers!!
(4d-Don / October 24, 2007 - 09:11 pm)
4d-don said:
It is HIGH TIME to put GOD and the HOLY BOOKS of all religions ON TRIAL (International Tribunal).
Any criminal activity (hatred, incitement to hatred, murder, incitement to murder, genocide, conspiracy, and many more...) by either the "GOD" or "His/Her/It's" (usually male) REPRESENTATIVES should bring a removal of the "tax-exempt" status of the RELIGION in all UN Countries.
The evidence of criminal activity by many Religions is in black and white in their HOLY BOOKS.
If GOD is found "innocent" then IT's representatives should be forced to remove from the HOLY BOOKS the sections where the crimes are attributed to, or ordered by "GOD" as a condition for the continued operation of the RELIGION (cult) in any UN countries.
RELIGIONS should not be "tax-exempt" for creating a social problem (crime) and not adhering to the civil laws of the land, but if doing charity work, only the CHARITY WORK portion of that religion (cult) should be TAX EXEMPT, not the PROSELYTIZING of what now appears to be a CRIMINAL GOD, served by criminal representatives and gullible and naive but innocent followers!!
(4d-Don / October 24, 2007 - 09:11 pm)
Wednesday, October 24, 2007
How about a number for GOD...ONE?
Taken from:
http://atheisme.free.fr/Votre_espace/Visitors_book.htm
Kim Piercey said:
One day every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. God wants to be your Saviour not your judge. Turn to Him and life will change. You can mock all you like but the truth is nothing in life will satisfy you until you have tried God!
(Kim Piercey / October 16, 2007 - 00:26 pm)
4d-Don said:
Those (Judeo-Christians) who pretend to know what their God (from the Goth (Germanic) empire that sacked Rome in the 4th century of the "common era" (CE)) wants, says and does always say that their God wants to SAVE us (and then punish us if we refuse). From WHAT? Satan, is what they answer. A powerful OPPOSITE of their GOD. MONOTHEISM is now DUALITY.
To speak for the ONE is a disease (psychosis that leads to megalomania), not a virtue.
To claim to know what the ONE desires is "blasphemy", as ONE (what they call G-O-D) does not have "attributes", wants and desires they claim.
To put Christ as GOD (Trinity) and then to call it by the lowly name of LORD (such as LORD Conrad Black et al) is "idolatry" at best and so "Constantinean" (see the Roman Emperor and his role in this schismic travesty) at worse.
Now the name for the ONE in Judaism is "Yahweh", or JEHOVA, not G-O-D. The Greek concept that preceded the Judaic concept of Yahweh and Elohim was LOGOS (LOGIC as defined by SOUND) not the static and germanic translation: "WORD". This LOGOS is translated in French as "VERB" not G-O-D or WORD. (see John 1).
To believe in GOD and not YAHWEH, ELOHIM, LOGOS, is so GERMANIC or GOTH! Now do you wonder why the resurgence of the GOTH culture in our YOUTH? Not the SPIRITUAL ACME of THEOLOGY for HOMO SAPIENS!
Those who are atheist and do not believe in your or any of the many GODs, CHRISTs (Messiah), WORDs, and who believe that MAN (homo sapiens) must save HIMSELF also have a "hard-wired" need for the MYSTICAL experience, hence believe in SOMETHING...WE just don't call it GOD, LORD, KING, etc...IT IS TOO LOWLY! Some, but not all, prefer ONE, UNITY, ALL etc... and what about NO ATTRIBUTES FOR THE ONE (such as FATHER, MALE, etc...)
WHAT ABOUT A NUMBER? ONE? ALL?
GET TOGETHER, RIGHT NOW! STOP FIGHTING and WAR!!
Christ, when he was living was not LORD and did not die as a LORD!
If God (Yahweh, Elohim, LOGOS) is LORD, then he (male) should be made a member of the MALE HOUSE OF LORDS, not the house (pantheon) of the SPIRITUAL (no gender) GODS!
(4d-don / October 22, 2007 - 10:13 pm)
http://atheisme.free.fr/Votre_espace/Visitors_book.htm
Kim Piercey said:
One day every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. God wants to be your Saviour not your judge. Turn to Him and life will change. You can mock all you like but the truth is nothing in life will satisfy you until you have tried God!
(Kim Piercey / October 16, 2007 - 00:26 pm)
4d-Don said:
Those (Judeo-Christians) who pretend to know what their God (from the Goth (Germanic) empire that sacked Rome in the 4th century of the "common era" (CE)) wants, says and does always say that their God wants to SAVE us (and then punish us if we refuse). From WHAT? Satan, is what they answer. A powerful OPPOSITE of their GOD. MONOTHEISM is now DUALITY.
To speak for the ONE is a disease (psychosis that leads to megalomania), not a virtue.
To claim to know what the ONE desires is "blasphemy", as ONE (what they call G-O-D) does not have "attributes", wants and desires they claim.
To put Christ as GOD (Trinity) and then to call it by the lowly name of LORD (such as LORD Conrad Black et al) is "idolatry" at best and so "Constantinean" (see the Roman Emperor and his role in this schismic travesty) at worse.
Now the name for the ONE in Judaism is "Yahweh", or JEHOVA, not G-O-D. The Greek concept that preceded the Judaic concept of Yahweh and Elohim was LOGOS (LOGIC as defined by SOUND) not the static and germanic translation: "WORD". This LOGOS is translated in French as "VERB" not G-O-D or WORD. (see John 1).
To believe in GOD and not YAHWEH, ELOHIM, LOGOS, is so GERMANIC or GOTH! Now do you wonder why the resurgence of the GOTH culture in our YOUTH? Not the SPIRITUAL ACME of THEOLOGY for HOMO SAPIENS!
Those who are atheist and do not believe in your or any of the many GODs, CHRISTs (Messiah), WORDs, and who believe that MAN (homo sapiens) must save HIMSELF also have a "hard-wired" need for the MYSTICAL experience, hence believe in SOMETHING...WE just don't call it GOD, LORD, KING, etc...IT IS TOO LOWLY! Some, but not all, prefer ONE, UNITY, ALL etc... and what about NO ATTRIBUTES FOR THE ONE (such as FATHER, MALE, etc...)
WHAT ABOUT A NUMBER? ONE? ALL?
GET TOGETHER, RIGHT NOW! STOP FIGHTING and WAR!!
Christ, when he was living was not LORD and did not die as a LORD!
If God (Yahweh, Elohim, LOGOS) is LORD, then he (male) should be made a member of the MALE HOUSE OF LORDS, not the house (pantheon) of the SPIRITUAL (no gender) GODS!
(4d-don / October 22, 2007 - 10:13 pm)
Validating Proof of the ONE
Taken from: http://atheisme.free.fr/Votre_espace/Visitors_book.htm
Adam Sandler said:
u suck, i mean you dont even offer validating proof of ANY of your ideas or "facts"
(adam sandler / October 10, 2007 - 01:33 am)
4d-don said:
Those who "demand" validating proof of the "non-existence" of a "MYTH" (GOD) created by our un-developed, warring, and frightened fore-fathers obviously must have "validating" proof of the existence of the ONE (the Divine, what some call "GOD"). That PROOF? Their HOLY BOOKs... which are now considered "scientific" or validating proof of not only the ONE, but of his opponent "SATAN" or the DEMONS of the "underworld" who will EAT you if you don't perform certain RITUALS...
What was once called "CREATIONISM" is now called by the more scientific "INTELLIGENT DESIGN"...We can agree with that ONE! The UNIVERSE IS INTELLIGENT although some parts of the UNIVERSE (the ALL) or ONE (GOD) are more "intelligent" than others.
From the ONE of MONO-theism, comes the Duality of "inside and outside" of GOD...So accordingly, the ONE is not ALL, but there is a group of (damned) spirits and a "FIRE", who are outside the ONE and live in the HELL of "OUT THERE". That is not MONO (ONE) but DUAL-ity (TWO)...and all without "symetry"...
According to them, The ONE is IMPERFECT since there are someones or somethings "OUTSIDE" of the ONE...And apparently, the ONE is NOT A PERSON but a SPIRIT or I prefer: ALL...
Those who worship a PERSONAL ONE cannot PROVE the existence of that ONE (person), those who don't believe in that ONE can't prove it's "non-existence".
That is the "Science" of RELIGION...which is also the science of "Fantasy".
Whatever you can "think", you can CREATE...And if you write it down, the "gullible" followers will come! Be it Harry Potter or GOD...
Creating a RELIGION is easy...Ask PT Barnum who said: "There is a new one (sucker) born every minute."
(4d-don / October 14, 2007 - 09:00 pm)
Adam Sandler said:
u suck, i mean you dont even offer validating proof of ANY of your ideas or "facts"
(adam sandler / October 10, 2007 - 01:33 am)
4d-don said:
Those who "demand" validating proof of the "non-existence" of a "MYTH" (GOD) created by our un-developed, warring, and frightened fore-fathers obviously must have "validating" proof of the existence of the ONE (the Divine, what some call "GOD"). That PROOF? Their HOLY BOOKs... which are now considered "scientific" or validating proof of not only the ONE, but of his opponent "SATAN" or the DEMONS of the "underworld" who will EAT you if you don't perform certain RITUALS...
What was once called "CREATIONISM" is now called by the more scientific "INTELLIGENT DESIGN"...We can agree with that ONE! The UNIVERSE IS INTELLIGENT although some parts of the UNIVERSE (the ALL) or ONE (GOD) are more "intelligent" than others.
From the ONE of MONO-theism, comes the Duality of "inside and outside" of GOD...So accordingly, the ONE is not ALL, but there is a group of (damned) spirits and a "FIRE", who are outside the ONE and live in the HELL of "OUT THERE". That is not MONO (ONE) but DUAL-ity (TWO)...and all without "symetry"...
According to them, The ONE is IMPERFECT since there are someones or somethings "OUTSIDE" of the ONE...And apparently, the ONE is NOT A PERSON but a SPIRIT or I prefer: ALL...
Those who worship a PERSONAL ONE cannot PROVE the existence of that ONE (person), those who don't believe in that ONE can't prove it's "non-existence".
That is the "Science" of RELIGION...which is also the science of "Fantasy".
Whatever you can "think", you can CREATE...And if you write it down, the "gullible" followers will come! Be it Harry Potter or GOD...
Creating a RELIGION is easy...Ask PT Barnum who said: "There is a new one (sucker) born every minute."
(4d-don / October 14, 2007 - 09:00 pm)
Wednesday, September 12, 2007
From THEOS to LOGOS to YAHWEH to DEUS to GOTH to GOD
Taken from: http://atheisme.free.fr/Votre_espace/Visitors_book.htm
The personal "GOD" of the Christians, Allah of the Muslims, and even the "no-name, no form" Yahweh/Elohim of the Jews, is more of a POLITICIAN and Military leader with Male (testosterone) emotions, some favourites or "pets", than a CREATIVE Process or a LAW without a "personality".
The personal Christian "G-o-d", made up of two closed-mouth consonants "G-D" enclosing the open-mouth vowel "O", comes from the word Goth, of the Germanic tribe, the Goth (Ostrogoths- Eastern Goths, the Visigoth- Western- Noble- Children of Goth), who along with their cousins, the Vandals, (who gave us "vandalism") sacked Rome in the 4th centruy as they were being displaced from their land by the advancing Huns)
We are seeing the resurgence of the GOTH culture in our youth. The current Gothic youths seems to be doing to the current culture what the ancient Goths did to the "Holy Roman Church" that had become the ruthless and terrorist state religion of the disintegrating Roman Empire, in the 4th century, following the Byzantine (roman) emperor, Constantine.
From that "take-over" of Constantine (the State), of the small "Jesus movement", also came the Trinity of God, making Christ the second person in a Divine Trinity, so Constantine, also a (pagan) GOD could become a Christian and have his sins of the murder of members of his family forgiven as offered by Christianity. This the pagan religion would not do. Constantine had a Church built at Byzantium with 12 podiums on columns, for the statues of the apostles (now limited to 12men, with no women, even the ones who stood at the cross as Jesus, the Nazarene, died and the twelve male apostles were hiding in fear of receiving the same fate), and one podium for himself, the GOD, Constantine. From the Council of Nicea came the Nicene Creed, whereby all Christians pledge to believe this "TRUTH".
Later came invasion of the Huns and migration of the VISIGOTHS (Western, Noble or the Children of Goth or God), and the Vandals who sacked Rome and defeated the Romans led by Valens.
To read the Nicene Creed from the Council of Nicea organized by Roman Emperor Constantine in 325 CE.
http://www.creeds.net/ancient/nicene.htm
For translation of the document from the Council of Nicaea (Nicea or Nice)
http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/3801.htm
The battle of the Goth versus the Christian (Roman) Church/Empire although brought about by the advancing invasions of the Huns, is similar to the later Master Race (Nazis-German) versus the "chosen people" (Jews) for the position of the "favourites" or the Teacher's Pet or the ONE (what is now commonly called G-O-D in the Germanic languages, that include "English"). The Catholics, under Constantine believed in a Trinity as pledged by Constantine's Nicene Creed, the Visigoths followed the teachings of the Egyptian Bishop Arius, who did not believe in the TRINITY and the inclusion of Jesus of Nazareth as GOD. The Goth thought and showed themselves as the "prefered" of God with their overt suffering (hence the white painted faces and dark clothes, flagellation, etc.).
Let us at least call the UNITY or the ONE, what we, homo sapiens, are "hard-wired" for, according to recent science, the "mystical experience", by a name that is ONE or UNIVERSAL and that has no human attributes such as GENDER, Emotions, Moods and is not a PERSON. The Goth empire is no more but we kept the "gothic arch" in Church architecture, and their name for the Creator: Goth or God.
Just a thought...
(4d-don / 11/09/07 - 20:46)
The personal "GOD" of the Christians, Allah of the Muslims, and even the "no-name, no form" Yahweh/Elohim of the Jews, is more of a POLITICIAN and Military leader with Male (testosterone) emotions, some favourites or "pets", than a CREATIVE Process or a LAW without a "personality".
The personal Christian "G-o-d", made up of two closed-mouth consonants "G-D" enclosing the open-mouth vowel "O", comes from the word Goth, of the Germanic tribe, the Goth (Ostrogoths- Eastern Goths, the Visigoth- Western- Noble- Children of Goth), who along with their cousins, the Vandals, (who gave us "vandalism") sacked Rome in the 4th centruy as they were being displaced from their land by the advancing Huns)
We are seeing the resurgence of the GOTH culture in our youth. The current Gothic youths seems to be doing to the current culture what the ancient Goths did to the "Holy Roman Church" that had become the ruthless and terrorist state religion of the disintegrating Roman Empire, in the 4th century, following the Byzantine (roman) emperor, Constantine.
From that "take-over" of Constantine (the State), of the small "Jesus movement", also came the Trinity of God, making Christ the second person in a Divine Trinity, so Constantine, also a (pagan) GOD could become a Christian and have his sins of the murder of members of his family forgiven as offered by Christianity. This the pagan religion would not do. Constantine had a Church built at Byzantium with 12 podiums on columns, for the statues of the apostles (now limited to 12men, with no women, even the ones who stood at the cross as Jesus, the Nazarene, died and the twelve male apostles were hiding in fear of receiving the same fate), and one podium for himself, the GOD, Constantine. From the Council of Nicea came the Nicene Creed, whereby all Christians pledge to believe this "TRUTH".
Later came invasion of the Huns and migration of the VISIGOTHS (Western, Noble or the Children of Goth or God), and the Vandals who sacked Rome and defeated the Romans led by Valens.
To read the Nicene Creed from the Council of Nicea organized by Roman Emperor Constantine in 325 CE.
http://www.creeds.net/ancient/nicene.htm
For translation of the document from the Council of Nicaea (Nicea or Nice)
http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/3801.htm
The battle of the Goth versus the Christian (Roman) Church/Empire although brought about by the advancing invasions of the Huns, is similar to the later Master Race (Nazis-German) versus the "chosen people" (Jews) for the position of the "favourites" or the Teacher's Pet or the ONE (what is now commonly called G-O-D in the Germanic languages, that include "English"). The Catholics, under Constantine believed in a Trinity as pledged by Constantine's Nicene Creed, the Visigoths followed the teachings of the Egyptian Bishop Arius, who did not believe in the TRINITY and the inclusion of Jesus of Nazareth as GOD. The Goth thought and showed themselves as the "prefered" of God with their overt suffering (hence the white painted faces and dark clothes, flagellation, etc.).
Let us at least call the UNITY or the ONE, what we, homo sapiens, are "hard-wired" for, according to recent science, the "mystical experience", by a name that is ONE or UNIVERSAL and that has no human attributes such as GENDER, Emotions, Moods and is not a PERSON. The Goth empire is no more but we kept the "gothic arch" in Church architecture, and their name for the Creator: Goth or God.
Just a thought...
(4d-don / 11/09/07 - 20:46)
Monday, September 10, 2007
The LAW-From ONE to ALL including ATHEISTS
From: http://atheisme.free.fr/Votre_espace/Visitors_book.htm
For all "Christians" and other THE-ists (From the Greek Theos=God the ONE Creator)?...(notice that it's close to "THEY", the sacred INSTITUTE of "THEY"). Well, THEY died... I heard it on the NEWS and THEY never lie. lol ;-))
The culture that gave you (and us) "Christ", your Messiah (Saviour) and the Old Testament in the Bible has many myths and symbols.
Do Christians ever wonder why the culture who's history is carried in a "sacred document", includes the concept of the primacy of the "LAW"?
If we look at other cultures guided by the "LAW" carried in their Sacred Books of MYTHS and SYMBOLS, including the LAW OF ONE of the MYTHIC (or even SYMBOLIC) lost Atlantean culture, one finds the same guiding compendium of moral and ethical tenets of that culture at that time including some "un-elevated" and "survivalist" tenets such as the "discrimination" against "homosexuality".
The tribe, to remain "vital", has to sustain it's numbers or grow, and the historic "male/female" copulating was necessary at some past historic time for the survival of the tribes. Inner and inter-tribal copulating was the norm with a few "outside" sperms and/or eggs added to diversify the gene-pool. This "inspiration" to explore other territory and spread the "seeds", came to the "rebels" and/or misfits of the clans, the explorers and the adventurers.
The same for some "cleanliness laws such as: "menstruating" women were not to swim in the pools and/or ride in a saddle at the time of the "curse" that was menstruation.
If these LAWS were inspired by The ONE or THE UNITY (what some call God, the Creator, etc) either through "evolution" or "mind meld" as in the sci-fi Star Trek or the "Divine inspiration" of the theists, then "IT" seems to have given "IT" broad and wide to many and maybe all cultures at different "evolutionary" times and changed "IT" (the so-called "inspiration") as the need and the "knowledge base" changed.
That would be like a "ONE" or a "UNITY" which is not "tribal" but UNIVERSAL as in ONE - VERSE....(uni=one)
Sing together my children!! Together we are a "symphony". You (we) all have the same "inspiration" or "IT" from the ONE (Creator) to the ALL (Creation). Some (humanists, atheists) get it through "evolution", some (theists, religious, cultists) get it through "inspiration" and some (adherents to the other theisms, "religions" and cults) get it through "myths and fantasies" and some get IT from other games of the Universal MIND.
(4d-don / September 06, 2007 - 08:53 pm)
For all "Christians" and other THE-ists (From the Greek Theos=God the ONE Creator)?...(notice that it's close to "THEY", the sacred INSTITUTE of "THEY"). Well, THEY died... I heard it on the NEWS and THEY never lie. lol ;-))
The culture that gave you (and us) "Christ", your Messiah (Saviour) and the Old Testament in the Bible has many myths and symbols.
Do Christians ever wonder why the culture who's history is carried in a "sacred document", includes the concept of the primacy of the "LAW"?
If we look at other cultures guided by the "LAW" carried in their Sacred Books of MYTHS and SYMBOLS, including the LAW OF ONE of the MYTHIC (or even SYMBOLIC) lost Atlantean culture, one finds the same guiding compendium of moral and ethical tenets of that culture at that time including some "un-elevated" and "survivalist" tenets such as the "discrimination" against "homosexuality".
The tribe, to remain "vital", has to sustain it's numbers or grow, and the historic "male/female" copulating was necessary at some past historic time for the survival of the tribes. Inner and inter-tribal copulating was the norm with a few "outside" sperms and/or eggs added to diversify the gene-pool. This "inspiration" to explore other territory and spread the "seeds", came to the "rebels" and/or misfits of the clans, the explorers and the adventurers.
The same for some "cleanliness laws such as: "menstruating" women were not to swim in the pools and/or ride in a saddle at the time of the "curse" that was menstruation.
If these LAWS were inspired by The ONE or THE UNITY (what some call God, the Creator, etc) either through "evolution" or "mind meld" as in the sci-fi Star Trek or the "Divine inspiration" of the theists, then "IT" seems to have given "IT" broad and wide to many and maybe all cultures at different "evolutionary" times and changed "IT" (the so-called "inspiration") as the need and the "knowledge base" changed.
That would be like a "ONE" or a "UNITY" which is not "tribal" but UNIVERSAL as in ONE - VERSE....(uni=one)
Sing together my children!! Together we are a "symphony". You (we) all have the same "inspiration" or "IT" from the ONE (Creator) to the ALL (Creation). Some (humanists, atheists) get it through "evolution", some (theists, religious, cultists) get it through "inspiration" and some (adherents to the other theisms, "religions" and cults) get it through "myths and fantasies" and some get IT from other games of the Universal MIND.
(4d-don / September 06, 2007 - 08:53 pm)
Wednesday, September 5, 2007
Want " faith"? Ask "HIM" Properly!
From: http://atheisme.free.fr/Votre_espace/Visitors_book.htm
Atheists Are Irrational said:
Faith : "to believe because God has revealed it to you". But why should God if you don't ask properly, of even bother at all? But faith has been redefined as "Belief without knowledge" by modern secularists. That kind of self-justifying re-writing of things is all over your site. You blind yourself.
By the way the proper definition of atheist is "To deny the gods", and not 'unbelief' as you claim, which is actually a form of agnostic.
Ironic that atheists do not have proof that God does not exist. While Christians at least have the potential of a genuine mechanism of proof (God revealing himself).
(Atheists Are Irrational / September 02, 2007 - 11:56 pm)
4d-Don said:
Does one have to ask the sun for heat and light? Does one have to ask for, not the "force" but the "geometry" of Gravity. Does one have to ask the Wind to blow? The REALITY or the ONE is revealed to ALL without asking. The darkness that is '"BLIND faith" hides the day of logic with all it's so-called "light". Would you again make war and destroy those who do not "BELIEVE" in your "gods" as your fundamentalist ilk have done for centuries?
We, the INFONAUTS are redefining what is "proper". I don't know if you heard but "THEY died"!! We are the "authority" on our lives and what we believe. The "gods" along with fairies, devils, imps, devas, and the other "personal" creations of a frightened "authority" is not what I believe. I believe in the ONE or UNITY of LIFE...not a minor desert tribal "god" who is always angry, at war. The Bible is the path to immorality that is supposed to lead to the GREAT MORALITY. NOT!! A fiction originated by "camel-dung eating" prophets and con-men of religion to manipulate the masses and be supported by the "middle classes".
GOD IS NOT A MALE according to John 1, but a "WORD". Christians, to be as John, the mystic and probably Essene (not Paul, the murderer, or the doctor, or the tax-collector) should at least make the ONE a "SPIRIT" and not a MALE PERSON who REVEALS (dreams) to an ELITE. The ElITE then re-write and claim that it was the POOR who were the messengers, and the prefered of this minor tribal "god".
One cannot prove the "non-existence" of something such as "elves", "fairies", etc...read some "theology" (study of the ONE-What some call Theos, LOGOS or the CREATOR,the SINGULARITY, the UNITY and "god") such as Thomas Aquinas (the monk and Saint, who was muzzled by the CHURCH in his lifetime).
(4d-Don / September 04, 2007 - 09:03 pm)
Atheists Are Irrational said:
Faith : "to believe because God has revealed it to you". But why should God if you don't ask properly, of even bother at all? But faith has been redefined as "Belief without knowledge" by modern secularists. That kind of self-justifying re-writing of things is all over your site. You blind yourself.
By the way the proper definition of atheist is "To deny the gods", and not 'unbelief' as you claim, which is actually a form of agnostic.
Ironic that atheists do not have proof that God does not exist. While Christians at least have the potential of a genuine mechanism of proof (God revealing himself).
(Atheists Are Irrational / September 02, 2007 - 11:56 pm)
4d-Don said:
Does one have to ask the sun for heat and light? Does one have to ask for, not the "force" but the "geometry" of Gravity. Does one have to ask the Wind to blow? The REALITY or the ONE is revealed to ALL without asking. The darkness that is '"BLIND faith" hides the day of logic with all it's so-called "light". Would you again make war and destroy those who do not "BELIEVE" in your "gods" as your fundamentalist ilk have done for centuries?
We, the INFONAUTS are redefining what is "proper". I don't know if you heard but "THEY died"!! We are the "authority" on our lives and what we believe. The "gods" along with fairies, devils, imps, devas, and the other "personal" creations of a frightened "authority" is not what I believe. I believe in the ONE or UNITY of LIFE...not a minor desert tribal "god" who is always angry, at war. The Bible is the path to immorality that is supposed to lead to the GREAT MORALITY. NOT!! A fiction originated by "camel-dung eating" prophets and con-men of religion to manipulate the masses and be supported by the "middle classes".
GOD IS NOT A MALE according to John 1, but a "WORD". Christians, to be as John, the mystic and probably Essene (not Paul, the murderer, or the doctor, or the tax-collector) should at least make the ONE a "SPIRIT" and not a MALE PERSON who REVEALS (dreams) to an ELITE. The ElITE then re-write and claim that it was the POOR who were the messengers, and the prefered of this minor tribal "god".
One cannot prove the "non-existence" of something such as "elves", "fairies", etc...read some "theology" (study of the ONE-What some call Theos, LOGOS or the CREATOR,the SINGULARITY, the UNITY and "god") such as Thomas Aquinas (the monk and Saint, who was muzzled by the CHURCH in his lifetime).
(4d-Don / September 04, 2007 - 09:03 pm)
Tuesday, July 24, 2007
Mutiny of the Infonauts
From: http://atheisme.free.fr/Votre_espace/Visitors_book.htm
Trulee said:
What a great find! we are more then a few! sometimes I feel I have to whisper not to bring on the (w)rath of the godlings
(truelee / July 20, 2007 - 07:33 am)
4d-Don Said:
As an a-THEIST, I do not "oppose" the concept of the ONE or the UNITY! (What some call "God"). I do oppose the static and dogmatic definition that organized religions have given to the ONE of their PYRAMIDAL structure, where THEY (the sacred Institute of "THEY) are the "elite" or the "saved" at the top of the Pyramid, and the Masses, as the needy sinners, carries this useless structure as if they were not "inside" the ONE, unless and until authorized by the "PRIEST" class. (the rituals of Baptism, etc..)
I believe in a more just, egalitarian, "spheric or spiral" universal and Divine structure where MOTION is scalar and where all have an equal access to the ONE, the UNITY or the DIVINE in us all, with it's positive attributes of HOPE, LOVE, CHARITY, etc..., and without the fear of the "NEGATIVE" (sin and Hell), and without the need for a religious or Pyramidal proxy system.
We are safely tucked inside the ONE where we live. We still need the pyramid structure for military, police, business etc...We do not need the "pyramidal" structure to reach the ONE or to expand to the stars where all motions in space are arcs, orbits, rotations, etc and where "translational" motion is just a relative local "illusion" much like tribal "RELIGIONS and their version of pyramidal (triangular, trinity) MONOTHEISM.
The pyramidal structure is useful in Eucledian geometry of three dimensions (3d), and is thus useful until we are off the planet, Mother Earth, Gaia, our cradle. Time to leave the imaginary BREAST children, and become responsible "adults", ready to reach for the stars.
This is a religious MUTINY of the INFONAUTS! The People are taking over their own ships for the sake of our spiritual diversity and our very survival!
Religions would have us make war with one another yet again!
The hour of our "transformation" is at hand! It is written in the BOOKS! lol
(4d-don / July 21, 2007 - 20:29)
Trulee said:
What a great find! we are more then a few! sometimes I feel I have to whisper not to bring on the (w)rath of the godlings
(truelee / July 20, 2007 - 07:33 am)
4d-Don Said:
As an a-THEIST, I do not "oppose" the concept of the ONE or the UNITY! (What some call "God"). I do oppose the static and dogmatic definition that organized religions have given to the ONE of their PYRAMIDAL structure, where THEY (the sacred Institute of "THEY) are the "elite" or the "saved" at the top of the Pyramid, and the Masses, as the needy sinners, carries this useless structure as if they were not "inside" the ONE, unless and until authorized by the "PRIEST" class. (the rituals of Baptism, etc..)
I believe in a more just, egalitarian, "spheric or spiral" universal and Divine structure where MOTION is scalar and where all have an equal access to the ONE, the UNITY or the DIVINE in us all, with it's positive attributes of HOPE, LOVE, CHARITY, etc..., and without the fear of the "NEGATIVE" (sin and Hell), and without the need for a religious or Pyramidal proxy system.
We are safely tucked inside the ONE where we live. We still need the pyramid structure for military, police, business etc...We do not need the "pyramidal" structure to reach the ONE or to expand to the stars where all motions in space are arcs, orbits, rotations, etc and where "translational" motion is just a relative local "illusion" much like tribal "RELIGIONS and their version of pyramidal (triangular, trinity) MONOTHEISM.
The pyramidal structure is useful in Eucledian geometry of three dimensions (3d), and is thus useful until we are off the planet, Mother Earth, Gaia, our cradle. Time to leave the imaginary BREAST children, and become responsible "adults", ready to reach for the stars.
This is a religious MUTINY of the INFONAUTS! The People are taking over their own ships for the sake of our spiritual diversity and our very survival!
Religions would have us make war with one another yet again!
The hour of our "transformation" is at hand! It is written in the BOOKS! lol
(4d-don / July 21, 2007 - 20:29)
Saturday, July 14, 2007
The ONE, the LOGOS and Monotheism
From: http://atheisme.free.fr/Votre_espace/Visitors_book.htm
Gravitondragon said:
I ask that you please read this through with an open mind, as I know of your belief about God. I can see you are set against God. You probably don't believe the Bible, but it has been around nearly 2000 years and is yet to be proven false. Archeology has excavated many sites in reference to the Scriptures and found evidence on many occasions, confirming its accuracy. If it is as accurate about things of history, why should I not then logically move on to look at what caused this? The Bible is more historically accurate than any other book of antiquity and does not contradict itself. For example, the gospels are written by four different authors. If you look closely at the text, you will find that while later copies add or don't elaborate on certain points they all portray the same message. Also, Jesus is the theme of the Bible. If, like atheists say, the world is made from matter, then where did it come from? I understand that you do not wish to ask this question, but how can I blindly accept anything without looking at the facts? I don't believe that you are a bad person, in fact it is an act of bravery to make your views so public. If possible, I would like to set up a chat to further discuss this. I will continue to read your website.
Take care and I look forward to your reply.
(gravitondragon / July 1st, 2007 - 01:10 am)
SP said:
I feel so sorry for you. It's sad for me to see someone who is unable to connect with that which has no name, that which is beyond reason and mindset. I wish you wisdom.
(SP / July 3, 2007 - 10:20 am)
4d-don said:
To quote the Bible as a proof of the existence of the ONE, the UNITY what some call by the Gothic "GOD", (from the Germanic tribe, the Goth, that invaded Rome in 4th century, common era, not Christian era, is like quoting "Mein Kempf" to prove the concept of the MASTER RACE (the CHOSEN PEOPLE). That was once the claim of the JEWS, as well as most religions, and is now the the claim of the CHRISTIANS. It's a disease called Monotheism, and it spreads.
The ONE (what some call God) if seen as a number or an abstraction to represent the UNITY in ALL, is then not a word (except in such compound words as "one-ness" to convey attributes of UNITY to words and concepts. Then "in the beginning" (Christian Bible, John 1) was not THE WORD (but the NUMBER). Yahweh means "no name" (no word), "no form", "no attributes". And that is only one of the names in the Christian BIBLE for the ONE, (the MONO of Monotheism). The other word is ELOHIM and that makes up the two Biblical words for The ONE, the UNITY, belonging to two tribes that later made up ISRAEL, the Yahwehists and the Elohimists.
The Greek concept used by John, the apostle, in John 1 of the Christian Bible, to express the ONE (GOD), is LOGOS. In the beginning was the LOGOS.(John 1) This is a philosophical concept and means: LOGIC as defined by sound, using the arrangement of sounds called: words. So MOTION! A dynamic concept that is not STATIC, as A DOGMA or A WORD! But LOGOS was translated that way by the "ELITE" for the control of the "lowly mass". A "word" can be "solid" and hence "sold". Logic has to be taught and then the student of LOGIC does not need the TEACHER anymore. So religion loses it's pyramidal (top down) control.
In French, the Biblical LOGOS was translated as: "le verbe", or the verb. Again, dynamic and in MOTION. An action, and not STATIC, as a DOGMA or a WORD.
That was early Christ's teaching according to JOHN, his friend.
MAKE SENSE (logic) WITH WORDS OR YOU DO NOT AGREE WITH THE LOGOS OF JOHN, the beloved of Jesus, the CHRIST (Messiah)
I find that many who quote the Bible have never read it but are just repeating what others have said about it. (the preachers). I have read the Catholic, King James, New Jerusalem (Jeru=NEW, so NEW SALEM), and many of the "modern" versions" of the old "compilations". I find many illogical and inaccurate accounts, too many to list. Those who say that it has never been "proven" are just apologists for a document that is as archaic as the fundamental concepts they espouse such as the one that Women can't be Popes or Masters (If transfered to India) or even "apostles" (note Mary the Magdalene and other brave women who stood at the cross as Jesus died, while the other "apostles" hid in fear for their lives, are not "apostles").
And then there's the ORIGINAL SIN! The alleged sin of ADAM and EVE that we all now are "guilty of". Now that is a good ONE ! Very "logical" according to some...or LOGOS!! lol I'm sure glad our "fought for" and democratic civil legal system is intellectually loftier than the Religious laws that espouses that type of DOGMA!
4d-don - July 8, 2007
Gravitondragon said:
I ask that you please read this through with an open mind, as I know of your belief about God. I can see you are set against God. You probably don't believe the Bible, but it has been around nearly 2000 years and is yet to be proven false. Archeology has excavated many sites in reference to the Scriptures and found evidence on many occasions, confirming its accuracy. If it is as accurate about things of history, why should I not then logically move on to look at what caused this? The Bible is more historically accurate than any other book of antiquity and does not contradict itself. For example, the gospels are written by four different authors. If you look closely at the text, you will find that while later copies add or don't elaborate on certain points they all portray the same message. Also, Jesus is the theme of the Bible. If, like atheists say, the world is made from matter, then where did it come from? I understand that you do not wish to ask this question, but how can I blindly accept anything without looking at the facts? I don't believe that you are a bad person, in fact it is an act of bravery to make your views so public. If possible, I would like to set up a chat to further discuss this. I will continue to read your website.
Take care and I look forward to your reply.
(gravitondragon / July 1st, 2007 - 01:10 am)
SP said:
I feel so sorry for you. It's sad for me to see someone who is unable to connect with that which has no name, that which is beyond reason and mindset. I wish you wisdom.
(SP / July 3, 2007 - 10:20 am)
4d-don said:
To quote the Bible as a proof of the existence of the ONE, the UNITY what some call by the Gothic "GOD", (from the Germanic tribe, the Goth, that invaded Rome in 4th century, common era, not Christian era, is like quoting "Mein Kempf" to prove the concept of the MASTER RACE (the CHOSEN PEOPLE). That was once the claim of the JEWS, as well as most religions, and is now the the claim of the CHRISTIANS. It's a disease called Monotheism, and it spreads.
The ONE (what some call God) if seen as a number or an abstraction to represent the UNITY in ALL, is then not a word (except in such compound words as "one-ness" to convey attributes of UNITY to words and concepts. Then "in the beginning" (Christian Bible, John 1) was not THE WORD (but the NUMBER). Yahweh means "no name" (no word), "no form", "no attributes". And that is only one of the names in the Christian BIBLE for the ONE, (the MONO of Monotheism). The other word is ELOHIM and that makes up the two Biblical words for The ONE, the UNITY, belonging to two tribes that later made up ISRAEL, the Yahwehists and the Elohimists.
The Greek concept used by John, the apostle, in John 1 of the Christian Bible, to express the ONE (GOD), is LOGOS. In the beginning was the LOGOS.(John 1) This is a philosophical concept and means: LOGIC as defined by sound, using the arrangement of sounds called: words. So MOTION! A dynamic concept that is not STATIC, as A DOGMA or A WORD! But LOGOS was translated that way by the "ELITE" for the control of the "lowly mass". A "word" can be "solid" and hence "sold". Logic has to be taught and then the student of LOGIC does not need the TEACHER anymore. So religion loses it's pyramidal (top down) control.
In French, the Biblical LOGOS was translated as: "le verbe", or the verb. Again, dynamic and in MOTION. An action, and not STATIC, as a DOGMA or a WORD.
That was early Christ's teaching according to JOHN, his friend.
MAKE SENSE (logic) WITH WORDS OR YOU DO NOT AGREE WITH THE LOGOS OF JOHN, the beloved of Jesus, the CHRIST (Messiah)
I find that many who quote the Bible have never read it but are just repeating what others have said about it. (the preachers). I have read the Catholic, King James, New Jerusalem (Jeru=NEW, so NEW SALEM), and many of the "modern" versions" of the old "compilations". I find many illogical and inaccurate accounts, too many to list. Those who say that it has never been "proven" are just apologists for a document that is as archaic as the fundamental concepts they espouse such as the one that Women can't be Popes or Masters (If transfered to India) or even "apostles" (note Mary the Magdalene and other brave women who stood at the cross as Jesus died, while the other "apostles" hid in fear for their lives, are not "apostles").
And then there's the ORIGINAL SIN! The alleged sin of ADAM and EVE that we all now are "guilty of". Now that is a good ONE ! Very "logical" according to some...or LOGOS!! lol I'm sure glad our "fought for" and democratic civil legal system is intellectually loftier than the Religious laws that espouses that type of DOGMA!
4d-don - July 8, 2007
The HOPEFUL Bummers!
From: http://atheisme.free.fr/Votre_espace/Visitors_book.htm
Oviettiv said:
'am really impressed!!
(obiettiv / June 19, 2007 - 09:43 pm)
Rachel Crossley said:
Terrible website, u bummmers
(Rachel Crossley / June 18, 2007 - 10:12 am)
Christian said:
You pose some interesting questions. I have spent some time studying some of your material. I was just wondering if you believe in the concept of truth. If so, I would like to know. I will continue to examine your website. God Bless.
(christian / July 1st, 2007 - 00:45 am)
4d-don said:
We have HOPE and we are called "BUMMERS"... I guess it's not the "right kind of HOPE"... Like the kind that comes from a "legitimate" "church"... That's like saying that if you play the kitchen spoons, you are not really a "spoon player" as to truly be a "spoon player", one has to use the "musical Instruments" bought at a "legitimate" music store. You know the kind that are "stuck together already.
We are taking back our HOPE also because the RELIGIOUS fear of a HELL is not enough of a motivator. It does not stop "evil" from existing as collectively having created the "hell" from fantasy to "reality" simply by saying it, writing it and and then "collectively" believing it, the "lowest among us" will become curious to experience that "evil"...
Where is the HOPE in the Religious HELL and the other attributes of the realm of EVIL disguised as "GOOD"..
Hell is the absence of God (not the ONE). So there is an Inside and an Outside of God. So God has dual qualities. It is also Male, so female is outside?
Logic is better than Fantasy in this case. ;-)) ONE IS ALL... ALL IS ONE...(no gender, no maleness, no duality...ONE IN ALL and ALL IN ONE... Alexandre Dumas (loosely) in the Three Musketeers...lol
(4d-don / June 26, 2007 - 00:56 am)
Saturday, July 7, 2007
See how they LOVE ONE ANOTHER
See how they LOVE ONE ANOTHER!
From: http://atheisme.free.fr/Votre_espace/Visitors_book.htm
4d-don said:
One can always tell who the Religious people are. They are the ones who wish their neighbours the curse of hell for eternity, and even create a space, the mythical ("hell") awaiting the "saintly" non-believers to go to forever. And not only for a crime or sin committed but also for the sins of "the Fathers" and/or if one does not take their delusional fantasy seriously. They even create a "Satan" to tempt one into "sinning" and to trick one into adhering to and believing in the his "non-existence".
Such fantasies are called "dogmas" or "truths". Satan's "modus operandi" to get one to believe that HE (male just like their minor tribal "GOD" and not the ONE) does not exist is to use one's desires and passions. In religion hides this spiritual "sickness" that we will have to define before we can evolve out of the childhood tantrums that are wars and "violence" against the fellow HUMANS. Even "intellectual" terrorism that is the fear created around this "punishment" of the religious hell, as if one was "guilty" from birth, has to be exposed as a societal disease that has to be "exorcised" as we reach "childhood's end", to quote Arthur C Clark.
(4d-don / June 24, 2007 - 06:44 am)
The Bummers (with faith, hope and charity and LOVE)
The Bummers!
From: http://atheisme.free.fr/Votre_espace/Visitors_book.htm
Rachel said:
Terrible website, u bummmers
(Rachel Crossley / June 18, 2007 - 10:12 am)
4d-don said:
We have HOPE and we are called "BUMMERS"... I guess it's not the "right kind of HOPE"... Like the kind that comes from a "legitimate" "church"... That's like saying that if you play the kitchen spoons, you are not really a "spoon player" as to truly be a "spoon player", one has to use the "musical Instruments" bought at a "legitimate" music store. You know the kind that are "stuck together already.
We are taking back our HOPE also because the RELIGIOUS fear of a HELL is not enough of a motivator. It does not stop "evil" from existing as collectively having created the "hell" from fantasy to "reality" simply by saying it, writing it and and then "collectively" believing it, the "lowest among us" will become curious to experience that "evil"...
Where is the HOPE in the Religious HELL and the other attributes of the realm of EVIL disguised as "GOOD"..
Hell is the absence of God (not the ONE). So there is an Inside and an Outside of God. So God has dual qualities. It is also Male, so female is outside?
Logic is better than Fantasy in this case. ;-)) ONE IS ALL... ALL IS ONE...(no gender, no maleness, no duality...ONE IN ALL and ALL IN ONE... Alexandre Dumas (loosely) in the Muscateers...lol
(4d-don / June 26, 2007 - 00:56 am)
From: http://atheisme.free.fr/Votre_espace/Visitors_book.htm
Rachel said:
Terrible website, u bummmers
(Rachel Crossley / June 18, 2007 - 10:12 am)
4d-don said:
We have HOPE and we are called "BUMMERS"... I guess it's not the "right kind of HOPE"... Like the kind that comes from a "legitimate" "church"... That's like saying that if you play the kitchen spoons, you are not really a "spoon player" as to truly be a "spoon player", one has to use the "musical Instruments" bought at a "legitimate" music store. You know the kind that are "stuck together already.
We are taking back our HOPE also because the RELIGIOUS fear of a HELL is not enough of a motivator. It does not stop "evil" from existing as collectively having created the "hell" from fantasy to "reality" simply by saying it, writing it and and then "collectively" believing it, the "lowest among us" will become curious to experience that "evil"...
Where is the HOPE in the Religious HELL and the other attributes of the realm of EVIL disguised as "GOOD"..
Hell is the absence of God (not the ONE). So there is an Inside and an Outside of God. So God has dual qualities. It is also Male, so female is outside?
Logic is better than Fantasy in this case. ;-)) ONE IS ALL... ALL IS ONE...(no gender, no maleness, no duality...ONE IN ALL and ALL IN ONE... Alexandre Dumas (loosely) in the Muscateers...lol
(4d-don / June 26, 2007 - 00:56 am)
Sunday, May 27, 2007
Calendars and Space, Time and Motion
From: http://atheisme.free.fr/Votre_espace/Visitors_book.htm
Colin Said:
you can please some of the people some time....... I just wish I had more of it!
(colin scholey / 17/05/07 - 17:54)
4d-don said:
Has anyone noticed how religions have historically controlled the dating systems (calendrics) of most cultures. TIME has also erroneously been made akin to a "dimension" and as such, something as real as MOTION or even as real as the volume that is SPACE that we can apparently, according to religions, run out of in this mortal 3d life, but that never runs out in the 4d (or n...d) of eternity and where we apparently get our spiritual or religious rewards or punishment. Hence: the Christian fantasy of Heaven, guarded by St Peter and Michael the Archangel, or Hell guarded by Lucifer or Satan, the devil and his demons. (Greek- Hades, the "netherworld" or the realm of PLUTO with its guard, the demon, Cerberus).
If TIME is simply a measurement of CHANGE or MOTION, then TIME is not something that we can be short of any more than we can run out of length, width or height, the measurements of space. TIME is not a "dimension" but half of a dimension, as TIME, because of MOTION, only goes in one direction whereas dimensions have two directions. (forward/backward, right/left, up/down, of 3d or the in/out of 4d, etc...) We then get the paradox that if we go faster than the speed of light, the Universe would spin backwards and TIME would go also backwards. It's a nice story but "it ain't-a gonna happen"!
The new concept to replace "spacetime" would then either be the "all-space" or better still, "SPACEMOTION".
It is time for our global society or civilization to take back the counting and understanding of TIME and calendrics away from the CHURCHES and at least start counting from an "astronomical" event and not a tribal "societal" event such as the birth of a man or a myth. We now have a need a calendar with three linked MOTIONS: the revolution of the moon in its orbit around the earth, the 24 hour rotation or spin of the earth relative to the sun, and the revolution of the earth in its orbit around the sun. Soon we will need to include the rotation of our star's (the sun) orbit around the galaxy in our calendars, describing the rotation or spin of the galaxy.
We are LIFE, not simply Matter, but Matter plus Energy. As such, we change our individual coatings but we, as LIFE, "GO ON"... We are now experiencing a "carbon" phase. The journey is not "OVER" with this life-TIME. Now, the memories that are stored on the duplicating capabilities of "carbon" will be tranformed to memory on other elements. We are then "elementals" in MOTION, going through a "carbon" phase...;-))...What's element is next?
(4d-don / 24/05/07 - 19:34)
Colin Said:
you can please some of the people some time....... I just wish I had more of it!
(colin scholey / 17/05/07 - 17:54)
4d-don said:
Has anyone noticed how religions have historically controlled the dating systems (calendrics) of most cultures. TIME has also erroneously been made akin to a "dimension" and as such, something as real as MOTION or even as real as the volume that is SPACE that we can apparently, according to religions, run out of in this mortal 3d life, but that never runs out in the 4d (or n...d) of eternity and where we apparently get our spiritual or religious rewards or punishment. Hence: the Christian fantasy of Heaven, guarded by St Peter and Michael the Archangel, or Hell guarded by Lucifer or Satan, the devil and his demons. (Greek- Hades, the "netherworld" or the realm of PLUTO with its guard, the demon, Cerberus).
If TIME is simply a measurement of CHANGE or MOTION, then TIME is not something that we can be short of any more than we can run out of length, width or height, the measurements of space. TIME is not a "dimension" but half of a dimension, as TIME, because of MOTION, only goes in one direction whereas dimensions have two directions. (forward/backward, right/left, up/down, of 3d or the in/out of 4d, etc...) We then get the paradox that if we go faster than the speed of light, the Universe would spin backwards and TIME would go also backwards. It's a nice story but "it ain't-a gonna happen"!
The new concept to replace "spacetime" would then either be the "all-space" or better still, "SPACEMOTION".
It is time for our global society or civilization to take back the counting and understanding of TIME and calendrics away from the CHURCHES and at least start counting from an "astronomical" event and not a tribal "societal" event such as the birth of a man or a myth. We now have a need a calendar with three linked MOTIONS: the revolution of the moon in its orbit around the earth, the 24 hour rotation or spin of the earth relative to the sun, and the revolution of the earth in its orbit around the sun. Soon we will need to include the rotation of our star's (the sun) orbit around the galaxy in our calendars, describing the rotation or spin of the galaxy.
We are LIFE, not simply Matter, but Matter plus Energy. As such, we change our individual coatings but we, as LIFE, "GO ON"... We are now experiencing a "carbon" phase. The journey is not "OVER" with this life-TIME. Now, the memories that are stored on the duplicating capabilities of "carbon" will be tranformed to memory on other elements. We are then "elementals" in MOTION, going through a "carbon" phase...;-))...What's element is next?
(4d-don / 24/05/07 - 19:34)
Monday, May 14, 2007
My Song of Gratitude
My song of Gratitude
I feel so blessed to have lived in this SPACE and experienced these MOTIONs that I measure in TIME units of years, hours, minutes, seconds and in historical abstractions of centuries, millenia, eons, and now yugas, etc., as we become more Gobal and experience the influence of other older cultures such as India, China, and the many mixed races of all the other continents.
Our world is shrinking as our knowledge, and hence our abstract (and/or virtual) Reality is growing and getting larger. This experience of MOTION is not limited to this Time or Age but in this era, we seem to have developed mathematical methods of abstracting Space and Motion that is now putting TIME as a dimension (like the 3-dimensions of SPACE with its two directions in each dimension-for a 4d SPACETIME or Minkowski SPACE(time)) into question. TIME (clocks) may then become simply a measurement of distances and duration of MOTION, much as the ruler ( measuring tape) is a measurement of distances and duration of SPACE. The whole would then be called SPACEMOTION and replace SPACETIME.
Linear TIME seems to get stuck in "paradoxes" when envisionned from the expanse of Space. We have no greater Time than the TIME involved in the measurement of the Speed of Light before the paradoxes appear. In agreement with James Clerk Maxwell (of electromagnetic theory fame) we may have to open n... dimensions of Space into a "hyperspace" to fully comprehend the multi-dimensional REALITY of the UNIVERSE or Multiverse.
The possibility of Time Travel may be the Hollywood fantasy that we may have to sacrifice to the new SPACEMOTION Paradigm. The paradoxes around Time Travel for instance disappears when one realizes that the motion of the "relative" 3d reality can only be in "one direction" as far as the MOTION of Time is concerned, ie. from the past to the Future, with only the Present (NOW) opening into the 3d volume of our everyday experience.
SPACEMOTION allows for the 4th dimension (as the other n...dimensions) of Space to have two directions, an in and out motion (ana/cata) oscillating or in Motion. That Motion is measured in Time units. Unlike SPACETIME, SPACEMOTION then contains two real directions available to IT without the appearance of any paradox. Because of the rotation and orbits of planets, suns and galaxies in one direction only, TIME as a measurement of that MOTION, has only ONE direction! For time to have two directions, the planets, solar system, galaxy, would have to spin in both directions, and orbit in both directions, and the Galaxy would have to spiral in both directions etc...That IT does NOT do that is physical REALITY. The measurement of that direction or Motion (in Time Units) can only in REALITY be in one direction: from past to future or in accordance with the second law of thermodynamics: entropy.
To have lived at such an age that allows me to play music, with (Band in the Box, software), and to communicate with the world (on-line), to debate, and to write my "BOOK" (on-line) is so exciting. I can still hide, but I don't have to... I can speak and be heard and from the information and words of others, that I will verify against still other's words, I will learn to recognize some qualities of the sender, just like smell, sight, sound, touch, now we have the psy's...We are taking back our Psy's . lol ;-)) Knowledge, just as Justice, is now blind also. Knowledge was always blind, was but was only attached to an "expert". It was a case of the blind, leading the blind. Now, after realizing that knowledge is blind, we may finally see.
I feel like a tourist but I am still living at home. I have the best of both worlds.
As the next generation wants to control the many (3d) institutions that we, the "baby boomers", have created with our passing in such great numbers, we (the Boomers) will now move into the 4d (virtual) experience and there, we will again be the "majority" and "in the middle of the road" and can stay there if we want to.
I am so grateful... And it gets better in the future if we can learn to control the lower emotions wih the "intellect" that tool of the MIND, and allow the beauty and MOTION of the dynamic and transforming ONE (UNITY-or a demystified and de-pesonalized GOD) to come through "un-adulterated" by our filters as carbon- based life forms. Our carbon selves will eventually and inevitably change (morph or transition) to energy after a journey into the memory-retention capabilities of other elements such as silicon. This "energy" is our more real or higher electromagnetic selves. We are creatures of LIGHT going through a "carbon phase". Our consciousness, thus linked to carbon in crystalized form, may even be a low-level electromagnetic emanation, and thus able to imprint and hold information on carbon, and hence able to remember for one lifetime, not more yet, for most of us.
Packets of this information can and may adhere to itself by gravity and moves as units to be experienced by or linked to other electromagnetic entities and be called: deja vue, talent, gift, gut feeling, intuition, etc... These packets are not tied to linear TIME, but are in MOTION, and can be experienced as future memories such as prophesies as well as past memories or archives of the past (Akashic records).
Just a thought or two!
I feel so blessed to have lived in this SPACE and experienced these MOTIONs that I measure in TIME units of years, hours, minutes, seconds and in historical abstractions of centuries, millenia, eons, and now yugas, etc., as we become more Gobal and experience the influence of other older cultures such as India, China, and the many mixed races of all the other continents.
Our world is shrinking as our knowledge, and hence our abstract (and/or virtual) Reality is growing and getting larger. This experience of MOTION is not limited to this Time or Age but in this era, we seem to have developed mathematical methods of abstracting Space and Motion that is now putting TIME as a dimension (like the 3-dimensions of SPACE with its two directions in each dimension-for a 4d SPACETIME or Minkowski SPACE(time)) into question. TIME (clocks) may then become simply a measurement of distances and duration of MOTION, much as the ruler ( measuring tape) is a measurement of distances and duration of SPACE. The whole would then be called SPACEMOTION and replace SPACETIME.
Linear TIME seems to get stuck in "paradoxes" when envisionned from the expanse of Space. We have no greater Time than the TIME involved in the measurement of the Speed of Light before the paradoxes appear. In agreement with James Clerk Maxwell (of electromagnetic theory fame) we may have to open n... dimensions of Space into a "hyperspace" to fully comprehend the multi-dimensional REALITY of the UNIVERSE or Multiverse.
The possibility of Time Travel may be the Hollywood fantasy that we may have to sacrifice to the new SPACEMOTION Paradigm. The paradoxes around Time Travel for instance disappears when one realizes that the motion of the "relative" 3d reality can only be in "one direction" as far as the MOTION of Time is concerned, ie. from the past to the Future, with only the Present (NOW) opening into the 3d volume of our everyday experience.
SPACEMOTION allows for the 4th dimension (as the other n...dimensions) of Space to have two directions, an in and out motion (ana/cata) oscillating or in Motion. That Motion is measured in Time units. Unlike SPACETIME, SPACEMOTION then contains two real directions available to IT without the appearance of any paradox. Because of the rotation and orbits of planets, suns and galaxies in one direction only, TIME as a measurement of that MOTION, has only ONE direction! For time to have two directions, the planets, solar system, galaxy, would have to spin in both directions, and orbit in both directions, and the Galaxy would have to spiral in both directions etc...That IT does NOT do that is physical REALITY. The measurement of that direction or Motion (in Time Units) can only in REALITY be in one direction: from past to future or in accordance with the second law of thermodynamics: entropy.
To have lived at such an age that allows me to play music, with (Band in the Box, software), and to communicate with the world (on-line), to debate, and to write my "BOOK" (on-line) is so exciting. I can still hide, but I don't have to... I can speak and be heard and from the information and words of others, that I will verify against still other's words, I will learn to recognize some qualities of the sender, just like smell, sight, sound, touch, now we have the psy's...We are taking back our Psy's . lol ;-)) Knowledge, just as Justice, is now blind also. Knowledge was always blind, was but was only attached to an "expert". It was a case of the blind, leading the blind. Now, after realizing that knowledge is blind, we may finally see.
I feel like a tourist but I am still living at home. I have the best of both worlds.
As the next generation wants to control the many (3d) institutions that we, the "baby boomers", have created with our passing in such great numbers, we (the Boomers) will now move into the 4d (virtual) experience and there, we will again be the "majority" and "in the middle of the road" and can stay there if we want to.
I am so grateful... And it gets better in the future if we can learn to control the lower emotions wih the "intellect" that tool of the MIND, and allow the beauty and MOTION of the dynamic and transforming ONE (UNITY-or a demystified and de-pesonalized GOD) to come through "un-adulterated" by our filters as carbon- based life forms. Our carbon selves will eventually and inevitably change (morph or transition) to energy after a journey into the memory-retention capabilities of other elements such as silicon. This "energy" is our more real or higher electromagnetic selves. We are creatures of LIGHT going through a "carbon phase". Our consciousness, thus linked to carbon in crystalized form, may even be a low-level electromagnetic emanation, and thus able to imprint and hold information on carbon, and hence able to remember for one lifetime, not more yet, for most of us.
Packets of this information can and may adhere to itself by gravity and moves as units to be experienced by or linked to other electromagnetic entities and be called: deja vue, talent, gift, gut feeling, intuition, etc... These packets are not tied to linear TIME, but are in MOTION, and can be experienced as future memories such as prophesies as well as past memories or archives of the past (Akashic records).
Just a thought or two!
Sunday, May 6, 2007
Santa Clause and USA based on God?
From http://atheisme.free.fr/Votre_espace/Visitors_book.htm
There is said:
You have no idea what you are talking about, people. Here I am trying to write a school paper on freedom of religion and you guys are practicly BASHING God and all Godly things. It is rude and disgusting that any person could be so arrogant about there beliefs and dis-beliefs. Why do you insist on being so mean? You don't see those of us who beleive in God bashing you on stupid websites with ignorant quotes and ugly phrases. Frankly, it pisses me off; not only as believer in God but as a citizen of The United States of America.
THIS NATION WAS BASED ON GOD! YOU SHOULD AT LEAST HAVE RESPECT FOR THOSE OF US WHO STILL BELIEVE!!!!
(There Is / Mai 1st, 2007 - 07:23 pm)
4d-don said:
When I told my sons there was no Santa Claus, I was being kind and responsible, not mean. The Biblical God (a word taken from the Gothic Empire of the 4th century) of the Jewish Bible (called Yahweh or Elohim) is not the ONE of Spirituality (nor the Singularity of Science) The God of the Bible has an "outside" of itself where there is an "absence" of ITSELF and where EVIL exists, so is Dual (God and Satan).
Monotheism means ONE, not TWO.
The Country (land) of USA, that was stolen from the many Nations that lived there before is not based on the Biblical GOD but on the ONE (Great Spirit, with no gender and certainly not a MALE only God)
We are all ONE (as Spirit or as Energy or as Forces) but we are not necessarily believers in biblical fantasies written by an "elitist" and "dung-eating" nomadic (shamans) of past centuries.
We should all find our own historical roots and respect our own elders and our own "myths" rather than believing the myths of a "chosen" tribe that is constantly at war with its neighbours. Stop religion and you stop most wars.
As krishnamurti said:
"Faith invariably breeds violence"... I can tell by the love "emanating" from Relgious People that Faith leads to LOVE...NOT!!
(4d-don / May 6, 2007 - 08:38 pm)
Later comment
keetsmitty said:
I find it most refreshing to read your thoughts on atheism. I am definitely of the opinion you speak a lot of truth.
(keetsmitty / Mai 7, 2007 - 09:51 am)
There is said:
You have no idea what you are talking about, people. Here I am trying to write a school paper on freedom of religion and you guys are practicly BASHING God and all Godly things. It is rude and disgusting that any person could be so arrogant about there beliefs and dis-beliefs. Why do you insist on being so mean? You don't see those of us who beleive in God bashing you on stupid websites with ignorant quotes and ugly phrases. Frankly, it pisses me off; not only as believer in God but as a citizen of The United States of America.
THIS NATION WAS BASED ON GOD! YOU SHOULD AT LEAST HAVE RESPECT FOR THOSE OF US WHO STILL BELIEVE!!!!
(There Is / Mai 1st, 2007 - 07:23 pm)
4d-don said:
When I told my sons there was no Santa Claus, I was being kind and responsible, not mean. The Biblical God (a word taken from the Gothic Empire of the 4th century) of the Jewish Bible (called Yahweh or Elohim) is not the ONE of Spirituality (nor the Singularity of Science) The God of the Bible has an "outside" of itself where there is an "absence" of ITSELF and where EVIL exists, so is Dual (God and Satan).
Monotheism means ONE, not TWO.
The Country (land) of USA, that was stolen from the many Nations that lived there before is not based on the Biblical GOD but on the ONE (Great Spirit, with no gender and certainly not a MALE only God)
We are all ONE (as Spirit or as Energy or as Forces) but we are not necessarily believers in biblical fantasies written by an "elitist" and "dung-eating" nomadic (shamans) of past centuries.
We should all find our own historical roots and respect our own elders and our own "myths" rather than believing the myths of a "chosen" tribe that is constantly at war with its neighbours. Stop religion and you stop most wars.
As krishnamurti said:
"Faith invariably breeds violence"... I can tell by the love "emanating" from Relgious People that Faith leads to LOVE...NOT!!
(4d-don / May 6, 2007 - 08:38 pm)
Later comment
keetsmitty said:
I find it most refreshing to read your thoughts on atheism. I am definitely of the opinion you speak a lot of truth.
(keetsmitty / Mai 7, 2007 - 09:51 am)
Saturday, April 7, 2007
Mono-theism and/or the ONE!
Flawed theology, creates flawed philosophy and flawed psychology that create flawed personalities (characters), that create flawed institutions that serve flawed individuals that create flawed theologies...times n ...cycles.
The fundamental MONO-theists (Christianity, Islam, and Judaism) are on the move again making the global (ONE) citizens study war through the Media and then the School system, thus creating a "nationalist" and almost "religious" (monotheist) zeal or fervour. Is it a "conspiracy"? Is religion a "conspiracy" generally? Is there a "hidden agenda" in religion? Is there a hidden agenda in "Religions as States (clans)"?
In Canada, the point of focus has recently been placed on Vimy Ridge as a "defining" moment in Canadian history, according to some military historians/propagandists. Most Canadians I know do not define themselves by a "war" but by the quality of their lives, family, friends, thoughts, emotions, first and formost. Security and religion comes "way down the line" and is something to do in an "emergency". For those who learn to "get along", what defines them is "how well they get along with everyone". Most people I know get ready for "disasters" but the disasters, although they make a good story and song, and worthy of "remembering" does not "define" them and most do not "dwell" on the negative but get on with creating a "positive" and "peaceful" future for the next generation. Peace and peace-keeping, not war, defines the Canadians I know. War is what defines the failure of statemen, politicians, the religious adherents, who should have "stopped" the war through "talking" or through prayer or education around the causes of war, such as "religions", specially state/religious clans.
They (the storytellers, academics, writers, etc...) who make a living from their "words" use the media of the day: books, film, TV, political parties rags, non-profit organizations, and religions to create a sense of "urgency" of an "impending" disaster such as "war". But the urgency around impending disasters are also presented in religious terms such as: plagues and "End of TIMES" scenarios and not limited to a "them versus us" division. The divisions in the "natural disaster" scenarios are mostly centered around the right/left wing "economic" argument and the credibility of the disaster "prophesy" is challenged using other "causal" theories.
It seems that the theological focus on the "MONO" as ONE rather than on the "theism" (God-ism) which quickly becomes a "who", a "person" God, could re-focus the theological divisions and the duality of a personal "theism" on the UNITING and impersonal principle of ONE. These attributes assigned to the ONE (God) by Man soon becomes "anger" and war. So the word "monotheism", a concept of ONE, becomes a concept of ONE with a concept of two (duality) when the "theism" is tagged on. A "One" God (centered in Heaven), as a localized entity (or person) opens a concept of "outside" of that "entity" or person (duality). Then the concept of a place where that ONE is not (hell, darkness, outside the group, etc..), establishes the duality in concrete terms in the mind of the "followers". They are then "controlled" through fear and can be made to do unspeakable horrors in the name of a concept of MONO-theism. Monotheists want at all costs to avoid the place where the "MONO" is NOT, or HELL!!
The inability for the dynamic mind (constantly in motion, as a shark) to hold "static" a concept of ONE in a MOVING REALITY, sends the mind either into the dualistic "theism" of a personal God or in the virtual, imaginary realm represented by the negative numbers. These numbers are called "integers" as opposed to "real numbers" which are "subsets" of integers and are: 1,2,3,4,5, etc. Integers are -2,-1, 0, and +1, +2 +3....
The ONE, (or REALITY) being in MOTION creates through MOTION, the DUALITY that monotheists then use as a power to "divide" in reductionist fashion. On the other side of the MOTION, the ONE MOTION creates the Imaginary, virtual, "not-real", realm of the "negative" numbers which are in reality and by definition, an "illusion". Time is depicted as a "negative" in the Pythagorean theorem for squares on Right angle triangles.
So the ONE is not a PERSON or a PERSONAL GOD or anything but a "principle" of MOTION between the REALITY of + (plus) and the Virtual, imaginary, (un-Reality), of - (minus).
Then the ONE is MALE/FEMALE/NEUTER and also, none of these attributes "alone" as the use of the word: MONOTHEISM seems to allow of the "theism" part of its meaning. The Monotheist religions claim to know that GOD is GOD THE FATHER. Nature is then the FEMALE as a "counterbalance" to God and hence outside of GOD.
We can then say that the ONE is ALL so as to encompass all the (positive) REALITY and the (negative) VIRTUAL, Imaginary, Un-real, etc... but the ONE is NOT -- any one part "alone" and not the "other".
Do Canadians know that we now have a mythic "MOTHER CANADA, rather than a "FATHER CANADA"....OH YEAH? First God is a Male and now our Country is a Female. Did you vote on that? Does it not sound like all other "fundamentalist" and "nationalist" of attaching attributes to what does not belong to them! Is Germany the FATHERLAND? India is the MOTHERLAND! Nations and the ONE have no GENDER!
Should we not vote on our GENDER as a country? Or is this left to "religious", fundamentalist, nationalist citizens of some country or monotheist religion? Flawed theology, creates flawed philosophy and flawed psychology that create flawed personalities, that create flawed institutions that serve flawed individuals that create flawed theologies...times n ...cycles.
The fundamental MONO-theists (Christianity, Islam, and Judaism) are on the move again making the global (ONE) citizens study war through the Media and then the School system, thus creating a "nationalist" and almost "religious" (monotheist) zeal or fervour. Is it a "conspiracy"? Is religion a "conspiracy" generally? Is there a "hidden agenda" in religion? Is there a hidden agenda in "Religions as States (clans)"?
In Canada, the point of focus has recently been placed on Vimy Ridge as a "defining" moment in Canadian history, according to some military historians/propagandists. Most Canadians I know do not define themselves by a "war" but by the quality of their lives, family, friends, thoughts, emotions, first and formost. Security and religion comes "way down the line" and is something to do in an "emergency". For those who learn to "get along", what defines them is "how well they get along with everyone". Most people I know get ready for "disasters" but the disasters, although they make a good story and song, and worthy of "remembering" does not "define" them and most do not "dwell" on the negative but get on with creating a "positive" and "peaceful" future for the next generation. Peace and peace-keeping, not war, defines the Canadians I know. War is what defines the failure of statemen, politicians, the religious adherents, who should have "stopped" the war through "talking" or through prayer or education around the causes of war, such as "religions", specially state/religious clans.
They (the storytellers, academics, writers, etc...) who make a living from their "words" use the media of the day: books, film, TV, political parties rags, non-profit organizations, and religions to create a sense of "urgency" of an "impending" disaster such as "war". But the urgency around impending disasters are also presented in religious terms such as: plagues and "End of TIMES" scenarios and not limited to a "them versus us" division. The divisions in the "natural disaster" scenarios are mostly centered around the right/left wing "economic" argument and the credibility of the disaster "prophesy" is challenged using other "causal" theories.
It seems that the theological focus on the "MONO" as ONE rather than on the "theism" (God-ism) which quickly becomes a "who", a "person" God, could re-focus the theological divisions and the duality of a personal "theism" on the UNITING and impersonal principle of ONE. These attributes assigned to the ONE (God) by Man soon becomes "anger" and war. So the word "monotheism", a concept of ONE, becomes a concept of ONE with a concept of two (duality) when the "theism" is tagged on. A "One" God (centered in Heaven), as a localized entity (or person) opens a concept of "outside" of that "entity" or person (duality). Then the concept of a place where that ONE is not (hell, darkness, outside the group, etc..), establishes the duality in concrete terms in the mind of the "followers". They are then "controlled" through fear and can be made to do unspeakable horrors in the name of a concept of MONO-theism. Monotheists want at all costs to avoid the place where the "MONO" is NOT, or HELL!!
The inability for the dynamic mind (constantly in motion, as a shark) to hold "static" a concept of ONE in a MOVING REALITY, sends the mind either into the dualistic "theism" of a personal God or in the virtual, imaginary realm represented by the negative numbers. These numbers are called "integers" as opposed to "real numbers" which are "subsets" of integers and are: 1,2,3,4,5, etc. Integers are -2,-1, 0, and +1, +2 +3....
The ONE, (or REALITY) being in MOTION creates through MOTION, the DUALITY that monotheists then use as a power to "divide" in reductionist fashion. On the other side of the MOTION, the ONE MOTION creates the Imaginary, virtual, "not-real", realm of the "negative" numbers which are in reality and by definition, an "illusion". Time is depicted as a "negative" in the Pythagorean theorem for squares on Right angle triangles.
So the ONE is not a PERSON or a PERSONAL GOD or anything but a "principle" of MOTION between the REALITY of + (plus) and the Virtual, imaginary, (un-Reality), of - (minus).
Then the ONE is MALE/FEMALE/NEUTER and also, none of these attributes "alone" as the use of the word: MONOTHEISM seems to allow of the "theism" part of its meaning. The Monotheist religions claim to know that GOD is GOD THE FATHER. Nature is then the FEMALE as a "counterbalance" to God and hence outside of GOD.
We can then say that the ONE is ALL so as to encompass all the (positive) REALITY and the (negative) VIRTUAL, Imaginary, Un-real, etc... but the ONE is NOT -- any one part "alone" and not the "other".
Do Canadians know that we now have a mythic "MOTHER CANADA, rather than a "FATHER CANADA"....OH YEAH? First God is a Male and now our Country is a Female. Did you vote on that? Does it not sound like all other "fundamentalist" and "nationalist" of attaching attributes to what does not belong to them! Is Germany the FATHERLAND? India is the MOTHERLAND! Nations and the ONE have no GENDER!
Should we not vote on our GENDER as a country? Or is this left to "religious", fundamentalist, nationalist citizens of some country or monotheist religion? Flawed theology, creates flawed philosophy and flawed psychology that create flawed personalities, that create flawed institutions that serve flawed individuals that create flawed theologies...times n ...cycles.
Wednesday, April 4, 2007
Facts, Truths and Religions (Spirituality)
From: http://atheisme.free.fr/Votre_espace/Visitors_book.htm
Alpha/Omega said:
Truth is fact! To have the truth one must be in its presence personally! Which of you were present in the beginning? NONE? So how do you know what is tuth!? What is FACT!?
(alpha/omega / 03/04/07 - 01:13)
4d-don said:
To claim that anything is "fact" and as such is static and "unchanging" in a dynamic Universe of MOTION and Change is simply FALSE. There are no (eternal) static facts and no (eternal) static Truth's, just a series of "changes" from one "outreach" of an "oscillation" to the other "inreach" of the same "oscillation". Everything is constantly in MOTION and nothing is at rest, not even the ONE, what some call "GOD". To be still is to DIE and the UNIVERSE, although a duality with "polarity" (positive/negative, Up/down, in/out, hot/cold, good/bad, true/false etc. is ALIVE.
The illusion that one side of the polarity, although more subjectively desireable to "US" as a self-centered being (ego), is more important than the other, is "RELIGION" and not the truth of LOGIC or SPRIT-UALITY (what I call a more rarified form of energy or logic) that allows for the MOTION of LIFE...and is not "stuck" in FACTS and TRUTH's...
"Spirits" (real or mythic), being energy, would not be "adherents" to "paths" or "adhesives" to be caught in the traps of materialistic logic. But some thinkers do try to conceive of the ancient Greek concept of LOGOS ("logic as described by SOUND, using words"...not Words as Facts or Truths) as a dynamic and logical ONE (GOD?) as the STARTING MOTION (not point...there is no point, only energy in motion) of our dualistic "MIND" and/or dualistic CREATION (or, the ALL), with all of it's conceptions (ideas). But one should not be "lead" solely by one's physical receptors and perceptors, many of which are tools of survival of the physical "carbon-based" part of our self, and as such, are physical. One must also use "principles" and other "higher" goupings of "a priori" logic and its "sensory mechanisms", such as "intuition" (intuitive perception) and what is now called ESP (Extra sensory perception).
Here is one "FACT" (NOT!), that seems to be static: Because of the rotation of the many components of the UNIVERSE, (and maybe the UNIVERSE itself), such as Groups of Galaxies, Galaxies, Star systems, and Atoms, TIME as a measurement of Change or MOTION, seems to go only in one direction, from past to future. "In this UNIVERSE" is the "important" point. lol
Then what about the MULTI-VERSE? What is the static FACT and TRUTH there?
Facts and Truths are the toys (illusions) that Religions sell....
(4d-don / 03/04/07 - 22:03)
Alpha/Omega said:
Truth is fact! To have the truth one must be in its presence personally! Which of you were present in the beginning? NONE? So how do you know what is tuth!? What is FACT!?
(alpha/omega / 03/04/07 - 01:13)
4d-don said:
To claim that anything is "fact" and as such is static and "unchanging" in a dynamic Universe of MOTION and Change is simply FALSE. There are no (eternal) static facts and no (eternal) static Truth's, just a series of "changes" from one "outreach" of an "oscillation" to the other "inreach" of the same "oscillation". Everything is constantly in MOTION and nothing is at rest, not even the ONE, what some call "GOD". To be still is to DIE and the UNIVERSE, although a duality with "polarity" (positive/negative, Up/down, in/out, hot/cold, good/bad, true/false etc. is ALIVE.
The illusion that one side of the polarity, although more subjectively desireable to "US" as a self-centered being (ego), is more important than the other, is "RELIGION" and not the truth of LOGIC or SPRIT-UALITY (what I call a more rarified form of energy or logic) that allows for the MOTION of LIFE...and is not "stuck" in FACTS and TRUTH's...
"Spirits" (real or mythic), being energy, would not be "adherents" to "paths" or "adhesives" to be caught in the traps of materialistic logic. But some thinkers do try to conceive of the ancient Greek concept of LOGOS ("logic as described by SOUND, using words"...not Words as Facts or Truths) as a dynamic and logical ONE (GOD?) as the STARTING MOTION (not point...there is no point, only energy in motion) of our dualistic "MIND" and/or dualistic CREATION (or, the ALL), with all of it's conceptions (ideas). But one should not be "lead" solely by one's physical receptors and perceptors, many of which are tools of survival of the physical "carbon-based" part of our self, and as such, are physical. One must also use "principles" and other "higher" goupings of "a priori" logic and its "sensory mechanisms", such as "intuition" (intuitive perception) and what is now called ESP (Extra sensory perception).
Here is one "FACT" (NOT!), that seems to be static: Because of the rotation of the many components of the UNIVERSE, (and maybe the UNIVERSE itself), such as Groups of Galaxies, Galaxies, Star systems, and Atoms, TIME as a measurement of Change or MOTION, seems to go only in one direction, from past to future. "In this UNIVERSE" is the "important" point. lol
Then what about the MULTI-VERSE? What is the static FACT and TRUTH there?
Facts and Truths are the toys (illusions) that Religions sell....
(4d-don / 03/04/07 - 22:03)
Tuesday, April 3, 2007
Everyone and Everything is One's Spiritual Guide
My reply to: "everyone and everything is his spiritual guide".... from Shantideva as posted by Chris on:
http://p092.ezboard.com/fmovingintostillnessfrm11.showMessageRange?
topicID=69.topic&start=581&stop=586
Re: Guru Yoga/Shantideva
You know the teaching I dig is Shantideva's who said that everyone and everything is his spiritual guide...that one makes a lot of sense to me...it refutes nothing, it argues against or for nothing...it uses what ever appears to our mind as our spiritual guide. And it really works!
Edited by: Chris Crumb at: 3/30/07 7:33 pm
Re: Guru Yoga/Shantideva
Hi Chris and all...
Now that makes sense.
If the ONE (God) is "omnipresent" then the path to get to IT is not "somewhere else" only, but some part of IT (ONE) should be "right beside us". We are not searchers in "space" but searchers for methods to use in the "interior scapes" of the realm of MIND, (with its id, imagination, virtuality, abstractions etc...). So, we want to "open one's eyes" and "SEE" the REALITY. That is what drew me to the eightfold (octave) "raja yoga" and thus in a round about way to the "phoney" or "modified" Raja Yoga that is "Sahaj Marg". Modified for whom? The fast-food, quick-fix, MacDonald Generation? The path of Raja Yoga was and still is "accurate" and the "king of Yogas", in my humble opinion, but with the "modifications" (tapas, yamas) of Sahaj Marg put back in.
From the Bible...(loosely)
If they say "HE"s on the MOUNTAIN, or in the VALLEY, don't go! The ONE will be seen from EVERYWHERE as IT is "Everywhere"...(I think...not sure of that...lol...To be ONE or ALL, IT has to be Everywhere, everywhen,....)
So, according to Jesus (myth or real), the ONE is Everywhere" and thus "in everything" (as the ALL) and one (we) just has to "open one's eyes"...
A prohet is a "seer"
The thing with the ONE, is that if it is dynamic and in motion, we can only see a "moving" or "transitory" image of IT with our "physical" eyes, so the minute we look or think or focus on something of "self interest" we lose the view of the ALL or the ONE. We call it "focussing". Some call what we perceive and experience as a "moment" of motion or "in time", but IT is ALL in ONE and "out of TIME" and in constant MOTION.
Therein lies the rub...and the occasion for the profiteers with the ability (silver-tongued devils) to "sell" IT, much as some sell sex as love, art as nature, music as sound, color as light, etc...we are in a world of metaphors (of our own creation (mind) and trying to use words with absolute meaning to describe beliefs, myths, symbols, mores (of the past), using a static language or a language of "objects", English. (as probably most commercial languages). The more romantic languages include some "humanity" but few if any, offer an extensive use of "metaphors".
A Biblical example.
In John 1, the Bible states:
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was God, and the Word was with God." etc....
Translation from the Greek:
In the Beginning was the "LOGOS" (in philosophy logos is Logic, as described by sound, using words). So words must "make sense" and not just be "grunts".
Translated in Latin and then French as:
Au commencement etait le "VERBE" (the verb??...The "action", ENERGY or MOTION...How romantic!! lol
Translated into the "static" english:
In the beginning was the "WORD"...static as if the "Word" is now to be spread as the static TRUTH from GOD eternally...Hence the Christian "evangelical" or fundamentalist movement.
From a concept of LOGIC, to MOTION, and ENERGY to a DOGMATIC eternal truth of the "WORD".... a specific sound or a specific WORD....and not SOUND in general...
It's no wonder we are all "confused" and clay in the hands of the "experts" of academia and/or the "autocrats" from the business-men of religion.....
Rather than speaking about a "table" as a static "object", if seen accross or "out of" TIME, the wood (or carbon) is actually "tabling" after having "treed" for a while and will be "moulding" and then eventually "carbon-ing" again etc...LIFE IS A PROCESS or "cyclical"....not a static reality...
We might, so as to reach a "higher" understanding of REALITY, have to start speaking in "metaphors" as Gene Roddenberry did on one of the Star Trek episodes...lol At least we might not sound so "dogmatic" and "know-it-alls" ...lol
Star Trek...
"Picard, his eyes open wide!!"....;-))
4d-don...
Edited by: 4d don at: 3/30/07 2:47 pm
http://p092.ezboard.com/fmovingintostillnessfrm11.showMessageRange?
topicID=69.topic&start=581&stop=586
Re: Guru Yoga/Shantideva
You know the teaching I dig is Shantideva's who said that everyone and everything is his spiritual guide...that one makes a lot of sense to me...it refutes nothing, it argues against or for nothing...it uses what ever appears to our mind as our spiritual guide. And it really works!
Edited by: Chris Crumb at: 3/30/07 7:33 pmRe: Guru Yoga/Shantideva
Hi Chris and all...
Now that makes sense.
If the ONE (God) is "omnipresent" then the path to get to IT is not "somewhere else" only, but some part of IT (ONE) should be "right beside us". We are not searchers in "space" but searchers for methods to use in the "interior scapes" of the realm of MIND, (with its id, imagination, virtuality, abstractions etc...). So, we want to "open one's eyes" and "SEE" the REALITY. That is what drew me to the eightfold (octave) "raja yoga" and thus in a round about way to the "phoney" or "modified" Raja Yoga that is "Sahaj Marg". Modified for whom? The fast-food, quick-fix, MacDonald Generation? The path of Raja Yoga was and still is "accurate" and the "king of Yogas", in my humble opinion, but with the "modifications" (tapas, yamas) of Sahaj Marg put back in.
From the Bible...(loosely)
If they say "HE"s on the MOUNTAIN, or in the VALLEY, don't go! The ONE will be seen from EVERYWHERE as IT is "Everywhere"...(I think...not sure of that...lol...To be ONE or ALL, IT has to be Everywhere, everywhen,....)
So, according to Jesus (myth or real), the ONE is Everywhere" and thus "in everything" (as the ALL) and one (we) just has to "open one's eyes"...
A prohet is a "seer"
The thing with the ONE, is that if it is dynamic and in motion, we can only see a "moving" or "transitory" image of IT with our "physical" eyes, so the minute we look or think or focus on something of "self interest" we lose the view of the ALL or the ONE. We call it "focussing". Some call what we perceive and experience as a "moment" of motion or "in time", but IT is ALL in ONE and "out of TIME" and in constant MOTION.
Therein lies the rub...and the occasion for the profiteers with the ability (silver-tongued devils) to "sell" IT, much as some sell sex as love, art as nature, music as sound, color as light, etc...we are in a world of metaphors (of our own creation (mind) and trying to use words with absolute meaning to describe beliefs, myths, symbols, mores (of the past), using a static language or a language of "objects", English. (as probably most commercial languages). The more romantic languages include some "humanity" but few if any, offer an extensive use of "metaphors".
A Biblical example.
In John 1, the Bible states:
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was God, and the Word was with God." etc....
Translation from the Greek:
In the Beginning was the "LOGOS" (in philosophy logos is Logic, as described by sound, using words). So words must "make sense" and not just be "grunts".
Translated in Latin and then French as:
Au commencement etait le "VERBE" (the verb??...The "action", ENERGY or MOTION...How romantic!! lol
Translated into the "static" english:
In the beginning was the "WORD"...static as if the "Word" is now to be spread as the static TRUTH from GOD eternally...Hence the Christian "evangelical" or fundamentalist movement.
From a concept of LOGIC, to MOTION, and ENERGY to a DOGMATIC eternal truth of the "WORD".... a specific sound or a specific WORD....and not SOUND in general...
It's no wonder we are all "confused" and clay in the hands of the "experts" of academia and/or the "autocrats" from the business-men of religion.....
Rather than speaking about a "table" as a static "object", if seen accross or "out of" TIME, the wood (or carbon) is actually "tabling" after having "treed" for a while and will be "moulding" and then eventually "carbon-ing" again etc...LIFE IS A PROCESS or "cyclical"....not a static reality...
We might, so as to reach a "higher" understanding of REALITY, have to start speaking in "metaphors" as Gene Roddenberry did on one of the Star Trek episodes...lol At least we might not sound so "dogmatic" and "know-it-alls" ...lol
Star Trek...
"Picard, his eyes open wide!!"....;-))
4d-don...
Edited by: 4d don at: 3/30/07 2:47 pm
Faith Breeds Violence on "THE PATH" -4d-Don
Reply to and agreement with the previous quote by J. Krishnamurti
on:
http://p092.ezboard.com/fmovingintostillnessfrm11.
showMessageRange?topicID=69.topic&start=581&stop=586
Hi all...
I have been questionning the cause of the confusion induced in the "seekers" by the words "path", map, secret, system, method, etc... as if there was a goal to be reached rather than a realization that the "journey is the thing" of spirituality... where one would be free to go into a group, (the sphere of the MASTER or MISSION or METHOD) take the "knowledge" (the map of the path) and get out.
With a spiritual "path", goal etc, that never ends or culminates, one never actually never gets there but a "dependence" is built just through repetition and "habit", that can then be "manipulated" by the "owners" of the path, goal, etc...(try it for 6 months and see...is the standard come-on!)
In logic, (and religion and spirituality), words such as: the path, "quest" or "search", imply a "movement" in space, to a place where one realizes one' s destiny and/or more of the ONE or Energy of LIFE. The presumption is that the "seeker" is presently in a more "dense" or "a less enlightened" space than the "other" part of so-called REAL and desireable SPACE (heaven, bliss, nirvana, etc.)".
It's the old: "the grass is greener over there" and you need a "path", secret, or map, to get there...and I just happen to have a "map" showing how to get there. Or, even better, I was there myself, or my buddy or guru, was there himself and he told me how to guide you on the path or to the goal...but I won't go with you....I'll just tell you what to do ...and you just obey! That is not a guide but an academic with theoretical information that could be "knowledge" or not... We will only know at the end of the journey. And there is no end to the journey. So?...we will never know...
And How do I know that I'll get there with this map?...Because no matter where one adherent gets to, using my path or map, I will say that it is "THERE" and I'll be "RIGHT".... Not ethical, moral, or effective or self-sustaining, but "RIGHT"....
If space is scalar, and all directions are "Possible", that implies that we, as "radiant energy" (heat..98.6, electromagnetic (brain=5-8 hz), and a certain individual visible light spectrum) are all sources of "radiance" emitted in a sphere around oneself, in many or ALL directions , in a sort of oscillating or "rolling" wave of "energy". The concept of the "path" implies a one dimensional linear space from this 3d to that other 3d space while the concept of "BE HERE NOW" of Baba Ram Das et al, seems more "REAL"... and "probable" in reality...The path is a "transition" (or an oscillation and rotational motion) ...LIFE IS NOT A TRANSITION from one space to the other but is a constant oscillating (in the direction of "in and out") TRANSITION, and is in rotation in an "allspace" created by itself... The path is ALL PATHS and does not say anything about a particular map or path from HERE to THERE ..... THERE IS NO SECRET, MAP, OR PATH, it is being created as the MOTION of LIFE ROLLS ON in the ETERNAL NOW!!
There's a song there....lol...
Krishnamurti is again "on"....I just read some Vivekenanda and was pleased to see him calling the "divinity", ONE...and at least thinking of "space and time"... If knowledge is also what is gained and "polished" with "spirituality" then knowledge has to be "shown" with "gem-clear" statements and not necessarily "experiences" except the experience of finding the excitement of confirmation that the "statement is true" and accurate and possible in "reality" and not just in logic, or mathematics or "in theory", such are "models"...
He (Vivekenanada) is another proponent of "use the intellect" (or logic) in the form of advaita philosophy for this age and I think he's right...
Obedience for some kids and adults...Logic for some adults and kids....
Knowledge of our Spiritual nature does not make one more "spiritual" any more than Knowledge about the Sun's nature make the Sun shine more. And certainly not shine more on one than on the "neighbour". The sun shines because of the laws of NATURE on ALL, in all directions. We are spirit because of our NATURE...Knowledge is just another intellectual "gift" and does not affect our spirituality...but allows an intellectual "realization"...
The message is BE!! not DO (or teach) Spirituality...We all know the difference!! Lots of talkers and salesmen out there... I will not buy what is mine for free!!
4d-don
Edited by: 4d don at: 4/2/07 1:27 pm
on:
http://p092.ezboard.com/fmovingintostillnessfrm11.
showMessageRange?topicID=69.topic&start=581&stop=586
Hi all...
I have been questionning the cause of the confusion induced in the "seekers" by the words "path", map, secret, system, method, etc... as if there was a goal to be reached rather than a realization that the "journey is the thing" of spirituality... where one would be free to go into a group, (the sphere of the MASTER or MISSION or METHOD) take the "knowledge" (the map of the path) and get out.
With a spiritual "path", goal etc, that never ends or culminates, one never actually never gets there but a "dependence" is built just through repetition and "habit", that can then be "manipulated" by the "owners" of the path, goal, etc...(try it for 6 months and see...is the standard come-on!)
In logic, (and religion and spirituality), words such as: the path, "quest" or "search", imply a "movement" in space, to a place where one realizes one' s destiny and/or more of the ONE or Energy of LIFE. The presumption is that the "seeker" is presently in a more "dense" or "a less enlightened" space than the "other" part of so-called REAL and desireable SPACE (heaven, bliss, nirvana, etc.)".
It's the old: "the grass is greener over there" and you need a "path", secret, or map, to get there...and I just happen to have a "map" showing how to get there. Or, even better, I was there myself, or my buddy or guru, was there himself and he told me how to guide you on the path or to the goal...but I won't go with you....I'll just tell you what to do ...and you just obey! That is not a guide but an academic with theoretical information that could be "knowledge" or not... We will only know at the end of the journey. And there is no end to the journey. So?...we will never know...
And How do I know that I'll get there with this map?...Because no matter where one adherent gets to, using my path or map, I will say that it is "THERE" and I'll be "RIGHT".... Not ethical, moral, or effective or self-sustaining, but "RIGHT"....
If space is scalar, and all directions are "Possible", that implies that we, as "radiant energy" (heat..98.6, electromagnetic (brain=5-8 hz), and a certain individual visible light spectrum) are all sources of "radiance" emitted in a sphere around oneself, in many or ALL directions , in a sort of oscillating or "rolling" wave of "energy". The concept of the "path" implies a one dimensional linear space from this 3d to that other 3d space while the concept of "BE HERE NOW" of Baba Ram Das et al, seems more "REAL"... and "probable" in reality...The path is a "transition" (or an oscillation and rotational motion) ...LIFE IS NOT A TRANSITION from one space to the other but is a constant oscillating (in the direction of "in and out") TRANSITION, and is in rotation in an "allspace" created by itself... The path is ALL PATHS and does not say anything about a particular map or path from HERE to THERE ..... THERE IS NO SECRET, MAP, OR PATH, it is being created as the MOTION of LIFE ROLLS ON in the ETERNAL NOW!!
There's a song there....lol...
Krishnamurti is again "on"....I just read some Vivekenanda and was pleased to see him calling the "divinity", ONE...and at least thinking of "space and time"... If knowledge is also what is gained and "polished" with "spirituality" then knowledge has to be "shown" with "gem-clear" statements and not necessarily "experiences" except the experience of finding the excitement of confirmation that the "statement is true" and accurate and possible in "reality" and not just in logic, or mathematics or "in theory", such are "models"...
He (Vivekenanada) is another proponent of "use the intellect" (or logic) in the form of advaita philosophy for this age and I think he's right...
Obedience for some kids and adults...Logic for some adults and kids....
Knowledge of our Spiritual nature does not make one more "spiritual" any more than Knowledge about the Sun's nature make the Sun shine more. And certainly not shine more on one than on the "neighbour". The sun shines because of the laws of NATURE on ALL, in all directions. We are spirit because of our NATURE...Knowledge is just another intellectual "gift" and does not affect our spirituality...but allows an intellectual "realization"...
The message is BE!! not DO (or teach) Spirituality...We all know the difference!! Lots of talkers and salesmen out there... I will not buy what is mine for free!!
4d-don
Edited by: 4d don at: 4/2/07 1:27 pm
Faith Breeds Violence-J. Krishnamurti
"Man has throughout the ages been seeking something beyond himself, beyond material welfare - something we call truth or God or reality, a timeless state - something that cannot be disturbed by circumstances, by thought or by human corruption.
Man has always asked the question: what is it all about? Has life any meaning at all? He sees the enormous confusion of life, the brutalities, the revolt, the wars, the endless divisions of religion, ideology and nationality, and with a sense of deep abiding frustration he asks, what is one to do, what is this thing we call living, is there anything beyond it?
And not finding this nameless thing of a thousand names which he has always sought, he has cultivated faith - faith in a saviour or an ideal - and faith invariably breeds violence."
J. Krishnamurti
From discussion on:
http://p092.ezboard.com/fmovingintostillnessfrm11.showMessageRange?topicID=69.topic&start=561&stop=580
(4d-don / 26/03/07 - 06:18)
Man has always asked the question: what is it all about? Has life any meaning at all? He sees the enormous confusion of life, the brutalities, the revolt, the wars, the endless divisions of religion, ideology and nationality, and with a sense of deep abiding frustration he asks, what is one to do, what is this thing we call living, is there anything beyond it?
And not finding this nameless thing of a thousand names which he has always sought, he has cultivated faith - faith in a saviour or an ideal - and faith invariably breeds violence."
J. Krishnamurti
From discussion on:
http://p092.ezboard.com/fmovingintostillnessfrm11.showMessageRange?topicID=69.topic&start=561&stop=580
(4d-don / 26/03/07 - 06:18)
Friday, March 30, 2007
Faith and Belief in Religious and Spiritual "GURUS"
From P092.ezboard.com...Moving into the Stillmess...Guru Yoga on: http://p092.ezboard.com/fmovingintostillnessfrm11.showMessageRange?topicID=69.topic&start=581&stop=584
Date: (3/26/07 12:32 pm)
Discussion on Faith and Beleif....in Systems, religions, spiritual Gurus etc...
Hi etern s e i and all...
According to Webster:
www.websters-dictionary-o...tion/faith
One can see that the definition of "faith" is varied and broad so it could lead to many and varied opinions.
Faith seems to have an aspect of "remaining TRUE" so in that sense, unchanging....One can only have faith in something that will remain the same unless one has faith in its "changing" aspect. Then one has to define that "change" and then have faith that the change will take place as "defined"...
A belief (a doctrine) is not so "rigid" and can be assigned to societal structures (ideas, theories, groups, etc that can change as there is not necessarily proof at the present for the belief) (see Webster definitions below))
The weight of the proof needed from "Faith" and "Belief" are what seems to distinguishe them.
FAITH can be said to have no need of proof or logical explanation. It is also more of an influence on one's life and/or furher "belief" systems one puts one's "faith" in.
BELIEF (such as Church doctrine) can change radically with time. For some adherents, regardless of the changes in doctrine, faith in the Church or structure, still remains.
The UNIVERSE seems to most of us, like a "ONE-time" event and we have no scientific evidence that although history seems to repeat, it is not really a true repeat but "almost" a repeat, as people, the receptors and/or interpreters of the experience of LIFE are different and our placing in SPACE is different thanks to MOTION of the SPHERES. Re-incarnation seems to suggest a repeat but in REALITY, re-incarnation can also be seen as a repeating of "cycles" and "packets (quanta) of spirit energy" rather that the repeating of the events, the whole person with memory, etc.....We can say that "wars" repeat but that is only the "generalized" wars, and not the "particular" war or the events in that war.
To assign to someone (a guru) more knowledge than one's self, about the multi-dimensional aspects of "LIFE" that does not repeat, is an assignment that should be "tested" every day and with every decision that is made on the advice of that particular "expert". One person (expert) can have more "knowledge" in one particular discipline such as "the jungle of Africa" and can hire out as a "guide" in Africa, but the same guide would be suspect and not taken seriously, if he offered "guidance" in any and every terrain and place in the UNIVERSE (on Mars or Jupiter... say?). An expert on LIFE is a "charlatan". We all have some knowledge, some more than others in one or more particular fields but NONE have all the knowledge except the ONE!! So faith should be for the ONE alone and not the "proxies" or self-styled and self-appointed representatives of the ONE (GOD)
Faith and belief in Spirituality and Religion are not mainly built on "experience" but on reading, learning and memorizing...not evidence. Faith in the "writings" of another man or group of men (religion) without knowing the individuals who's writings one is reading, their background, circumstance etc..is very dangerous. Faith, for most people, is not knowledge from experience. Experience itself is also too subjective to be a gauge of anything except of how we are all gullible and "easy to fool".
Faith is the easy way...It stops the cumbersome "Thinking process"with it's endless searches, debates, experiments, etc.....To the thinker, the process can go on with gratitude for the ability to "think". To others thinking is not so easy.
We can't know what ONE or UNITY (God) is from inside our own "duality", but we can describe some attributes of what the ONE is to us, such as GOD is ONE or UNITY (not Dual...such as the religious God inside the UNIVERSE and God outside at the same SPACE (outside of TIME) ...we can say, GOD is omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient etc..We can also describe GOD as Thomas Acquinas,(1225-1274), a Christian Monk, by "what it is not" and there we get into the debates of "relgions"...There is no place where God is not (hell? outside the UNIVERSE)...UNI means ONE....There is no Greater God that the ONE God...A God that exists is greater than a God that doesn't exist...etc...
Faith and trust in our "assignments of attributes to the ONE" as if they were dogmas and doctrines will breed violence ... statements of Faith should be open to scrutiny like all beliefs and as such is not FAITH ...
Rigid adherence to a belief and/or faith means accepting "no change" and no evolution, knowledge from the "traditional" sources or "authorities" only (Churches, Academia, expertism, etc...) The ONE (God) of FAITH is STATIC, RIGID, and UN-MOVING....My ONE is MOTION ITSELF...
According to most "faith-based" religious belief systems, before Homo Sapiens, the pinnacle of the ONE's Creation, there was "NO KNOWLEDGE" to impart as man was needed as a receptacle for that knowledge, and then out of nowhere, MIND (Atman), and MAN appear. SOME now want to place that knowledge onto our experts (gurus) and their structures, and onto GOD alone and not onto the rest of the ALL (CREATION) such as on the atom, electron, photon, planets, suns, crystals, animals and us, the "unclean".. etc... NOT!!! The SUN shines on ALL....
Blind FAITH in Religious and Spiritual matters will not survive this age of the INFONAUT (Jewish Kabbalah-seven archtypes)....The experts, the autocrats and so-called "authorities" in matters of FAITH are going to be exposed for what they are: not worthy of the trust that FAITH demands of the SHEEP...(the followers or adherents (from: adhesive or glue or "stuck") ...Faith will be reserved for the ONE!! Belief will be for the experts (gurus), if they are "credible" and shown and proven to be "trustworthy".
LIFE IS DYNAMIC and Changing and in MOTION...I as a Spirit have no problem with that...It is not our MINDS that can't change but our EMOTIONS that tenaciously hang on to our past habits and ADDICTIONS of Beliefs and FAITH in structures that we needed in the past, but that we now see as they truly are. I see them as obviously, and now "visibly", as confirmed by our legal systems, as corrupt and needing our input to bring about the necessary change so that the next generation is not "victimized" by the religious "cronies" and old boys networks.
One of my songs..(inspired by ONE)
Sign of the TIME
by 4d-don
It' s a sign of the TIME, knowledge is blind
And Freedom is fleeting
Keep it in mind, you step out of line
You'll be walking alone
So run with the herd, carry the word
The Big Drum a-beating
Numbers are might, defending the "RIGHT"
As rigid as stone
They're pinning the route, knowledge about
The ONE and the ONLY.
Darkness that shone, two tablets of stone,
A voice from on high.
Think as you must, knowledge is just
A myth in the making
Wizards that fly, and old men that die
Are leaving behind!
Seek as you might, ONE that UNITES,
Religion's dividing.
They're taking the best, and leaving the rest
To fend on their own.
Heavens Above! Knowing that LOVE
Is all about caring.
Taking the Time, sharing the Dime,
The temples can wait!
4d-don...
Date: (3/26/07 12:32 pm)
Discussion on Faith and Beleif....in Systems, religions, spiritual Gurus etc...
Hi etern s e i and all...
According to Webster:
www.websters-dictionary-o...tion/faith
Quote:
This is the definition of "Faith" according to the BIBLE (Christianity or Religion in general??)...
Faith is in general the persuasion of the mind that a certain statement is true (Phil. 1:27; 2 Thess. 2:13).
Its primary idea is trust. A thing is true, and therefore worthy of trust. It admits of many degrees up to full assurance of faith, in accordance with the evidence on which it rests.
Faith is the result of teaching (Rom. 10:14-17).
Knowledge is an essential element in all faith, and is sometimes spoken of as an equivalent to faith (John 10:38; 1 John 2:3).
Yet the two are distinguished in this respect, that faith includes in it assent, which is an act of the will in addition to the act of the understanding.
This is the Definitiion according to the "Devil's Dictionnary" (at the same site)...
FAITH, n. Belief without evidence in what is told by one who speaks without knowledge, of things without parallel.
One can see that the definition of "faith" is varied and broad so it could lead to many and varied opinions.
Faith seems to have an aspect of "remaining TRUE" so in that sense, unchanging....One can only have faith in something that will remain the same unless one has faith in its "changing" aspect. Then one has to define that "change" and then have faith that the change will take place as "defined"...
A belief (a doctrine) is not so "rigid" and can be assigned to societal structures (ideas, theories, groups, etc that can change as there is not necessarily proof at the present for the belief) (see Webster definitions below))
Quote:
1. Any cognitive content held as true.
2. A religious doctrine that is proclaimed as true without proof.
The weight of the proof needed from "Faith" and "Belief" are what seems to distinguishe them.
FAITH can be said to have no need of proof or logical explanation. It is also more of an influence on one's life and/or furher "belief" systems one puts one's "faith" in.
BELIEF (such as Church doctrine) can change radically with time. For some adherents, regardless of the changes in doctrine, faith in the Church or structure, still remains.
The UNIVERSE seems to most of us, like a "ONE-time" event and we have no scientific evidence that although history seems to repeat, it is not really a true repeat but "almost" a repeat, as people, the receptors and/or interpreters of the experience of LIFE are different and our placing in SPACE is different thanks to MOTION of the SPHERES. Re-incarnation seems to suggest a repeat but in REALITY, re-incarnation can also be seen as a repeating of "cycles" and "packets (quanta) of spirit energy" rather that the repeating of the events, the whole person with memory, etc.....We can say that "wars" repeat but that is only the "generalized" wars, and not the "particular" war or the events in that war.
To assign to someone (a guru) more knowledge than one's self, about the multi-dimensional aspects of "LIFE" that does not repeat, is an assignment that should be "tested" every day and with every decision that is made on the advice of that particular "expert". One person (expert) can have more "knowledge" in one particular discipline such as "the jungle of Africa" and can hire out as a "guide" in Africa, but the same guide would be suspect and not taken seriously, if he offered "guidance" in any and every terrain and place in the UNIVERSE (on Mars or Jupiter... say?). An expert on LIFE is a "charlatan". We all have some knowledge, some more than others in one or more particular fields but NONE have all the knowledge except the ONE!! So faith should be for the ONE alone and not the "proxies" or self-styled and self-appointed representatives of the ONE (GOD)
Faith and belief in Spirituality and Religion are not mainly built on "experience" but on reading, learning and memorizing...not evidence. Faith in the "writings" of another man or group of men (religion) without knowing the individuals who's writings one is reading, their background, circumstance etc..is very dangerous. Faith, for most people, is not knowledge from experience. Experience itself is also too subjective to be a gauge of anything except of how we are all gullible and "easy to fool".
Faith is the easy way...It stops the cumbersome "Thinking process"with it's endless searches, debates, experiments, etc.....To the thinker, the process can go on with gratitude for the ability to "think". To others thinking is not so easy.
We can't know what ONE or UNITY (God) is from inside our own "duality", but we can describe some attributes of what the ONE is to us, such as GOD is ONE or UNITY (not Dual...such as the religious God inside the UNIVERSE and God outside at the same SPACE (outside of TIME) ...we can say, GOD is omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient etc..We can also describe GOD as Thomas Acquinas,(1225-1274), a Christian Monk, by "what it is not" and there we get into the debates of "relgions"...There is no place where God is not (hell? outside the UNIVERSE)...UNI means ONE....There is no Greater God that the ONE God...A God that exists is greater than a God that doesn't exist...etc...
Faith and trust in our "assignments of attributes to the ONE" as if they were dogmas and doctrines will breed violence ... statements of Faith should be open to scrutiny like all beliefs and as such is not FAITH ...
Rigid adherence to a belief and/or faith means accepting "no change" and no evolution, knowledge from the "traditional" sources or "authorities" only (Churches, Academia, expertism, etc...) The ONE (God) of FAITH is STATIC, RIGID, and UN-MOVING....My ONE is MOTION ITSELF...
According to most "faith-based" religious belief systems, before Homo Sapiens, the pinnacle of the ONE's Creation, there was "NO KNOWLEDGE" to impart as man was needed as a receptacle for that knowledge, and then out of nowhere, MIND (Atman), and MAN appear. SOME now want to place that knowledge onto our experts (gurus) and their structures, and onto GOD alone and not onto the rest of the ALL (CREATION) such as on the atom, electron, photon, planets, suns, crystals, animals and us, the "unclean".. etc... NOT!!! The SUN shines on ALL....
Blind FAITH in Religious and Spiritual matters will not survive this age of the INFONAUT (Jewish Kabbalah-seven archtypes)....The experts, the autocrats and so-called "authorities" in matters of FAITH are going to be exposed for what they are: not worthy of the trust that FAITH demands of the SHEEP...(the followers or adherents (from: adhesive or glue or "stuck") ...Faith will be reserved for the ONE!! Belief will be for the experts (gurus), if they are "credible" and shown and proven to be "trustworthy".
LIFE IS DYNAMIC and Changing and in MOTION...I as a Spirit have no problem with that...It is not our MINDS that can't change but our EMOTIONS that tenaciously hang on to our past habits and ADDICTIONS of Beliefs and FAITH in structures that we needed in the past, but that we now see as they truly are. I see them as obviously, and now "visibly", as confirmed by our legal systems, as corrupt and needing our input to bring about the necessary change so that the next generation is not "victimized" by the religious "cronies" and old boys networks.
One of my songs..(inspired by ONE)
Sign of the TIME
by 4d-don
It' s a sign of the TIME, knowledge is blind
And Freedom is fleeting
Keep it in mind, you step out of line
You'll be walking alone
So run with the herd, carry the word
The Big Drum a-beating
Numbers are might, defending the "RIGHT"
As rigid as stone
They're pinning the route, knowledge about
The ONE and the ONLY.
Darkness that shone, two tablets of stone,
A voice from on high.
Think as you must, knowledge is just
A myth in the making
Wizards that fly, and old men that die
Are leaving behind!
Seek as you might, ONE that UNITES,
Religion's dividing.
They're taking the best, and leaving the rest
To fend on their own.
Heavens Above! Knowing that LOVE
Is all about caring.
Taking the Time, sharing the Dime,
The temples can wait!
4d-don...
Subscribe to:
Posts (Atom)
Hi Christians...
Amazing again that the gnostics resurface millenia after they were massacred by the "orthodox catholics" in the name of Christ. The (intellectual) slaughter still goes on as so-called officials of the orthodox churches, without knowing anything of importance on the subject, and not versed on the subject, reject the authenticity and even the hypothesis that the document could be accurate, out of hand. Is that the best "expertism" has to offer, and what or who should we put our faith in? A judgement without a trial? Christ would have wished better for his Apostles, even for Judas and Mary Magdalen. And what about the other of the original 12. Were they also "edited" out because of the content of their writings?
For the love of "Christ", have a heart for Poor Judas, and Mary Magdalen et al and let them have a "legacy" beside that of a traitor and a whore, all built on the rambling and ravings of power-hungry and corrupt Orthodox Imperialists of the 2nd and 3rd Centuries. The so-called "Holy Roman Catholic Church" the remnants of the Holy Roman EMPIRE!
Have a Heart and become Christ-like if not Christians...
4d-Don